similarity between "passive se" and "reflexive active" sentences
Please check my below translations and give me my mistakes:
active sentences:
The mad man told himself nonsense. = El loco se dijo una tontería.
He told himself it. = se la dijo.
Now i want to make a "passive se" structure by "decir":
se la dijo. (i want to use "no-fault se" in this sentence)
which one is correct translation?:
He was said by her. or It was said by her.
14 Answers
I'm having a problem understanding your first sentence. "He was said by her." Could you put that some other way so I can understand?
"Se la dijo" doesn't mean any of what you said. In fact I don't understand it all.
"Se lo dijo ella" would be: She told it to herself. "Se lo dijo él" would be: He told it to himself.
Did this help, or did I mess it up even more for you?
The construction "Se me perdió la llave." is a way of avoiding taking the blame. It's like "The key got lost" " It's literally "the key lost itself to me" Cool, huh? How about Se me olvidó su nombre. (instead of the more honest "Olvidé su nombre) The first one is the "Your name slipped my mind" (names can be slippery) rather than the more honest "I forgot your name.
Re: the "se lo dijo a él (or a ella) ¡Ay,chihuahua! this is kinda hard. First of all the "se" represents "le" (to him OR her) Spanish does not permit "le lo" for euphonic reasons. (Besides that, It doesn't sound too good, LOL) Now follow this:
If it were "le lo dijo" the "le" could mean "to him" or "to her" The "lo" means "it" something said--not specific like a tonteríia. Now if we don't put in a CLARIFIER like "a él or a ella)
Whoor what does the "se" which represents "le" mean. With "Se lo dijo" you have that somebody said 'it" to somebody else. Now suppose you have a situation where someone says"
¿Pablo le dijo a María que hay un león en la calle?" Pablo told María that there's a lion in the street?? (note the redundant "le" in the question, yes, it's required) the answer would be"
Sí, amigo él-(understood) se lo dijo a ella. Yes, friend, he said it to her. the "a ella" here is really not needed because you have a clear antecedent --María. but I use it just to emphasize. If María had not been previously mentioned, then you would HAVE to put in the "a ella" I don't know just how much background you have in Spanish, because it seems you haven't learned about Spanish direct and indirect pronouns. I would recommend the Fluencia course if you haven't gotten to this level of grammar'
I have tried to condense down for you a two week section of my Spanish class into several long paragraphs. I hope you understand some of the terminology.
Good luck, amigo.
I am sorry Daniela, but this nonsense about no fault it's faulty at best. 
Se perdieron la llaves = las llaves están perdidas = The keys are lost
Somebody lost them (known or unknown, right?
Se me perdieron... it was me..
Se te perdeiron ... it was you
etc...
So what's this about no fault people talk about??????????
Edit:
Se me perdio la llave. (I can't get the accents to work) this is like " the key GOT LOST" It's avoiding blame. It would be more honest to say : Perdi la llave. I lost the key.
If anything "se me perdió la llave" would thanslate literally "I got the keys lost" which would be translated as "the keys got lost by me"
The keys got lost = se perdieron las llaves - the keys cannot get lost by themselves, hence someone must have done it.
again, please don't teach that "no fault/guilt" stuff.
He was said by her
Maybe should be
She said to him ".... "
which will be followed by "reported" speech.
**Note that the tense of the verb 'to say' in English is expressed in the preterite and acts as a past participle while the verb "to be" is added. This use reflects a passive construction, and many times this use of "se" can be confused with the passive "se."*
These are not my words.
This link will help to explain about the "No fault" construction.
"la" points to "una tontería". I used "la" as a direct object pronoun for an inanimate feminine noun. "la" means "it" if the object is not a feminine person.
Se la dijo? Im having a hard time understanding what youi wrote
Just to confuse things futher - my contribution.
Se me han extraviado las gafas.
My glasses have disappeared. Not my fault.
I mislaid my glasses. My fault.
He perdido mis gafas.
My glasses mislaid themselves. Not my fault.
Mis gafas se extravían.
I lost my glasses. My fault.
Perdí mis gafas.
My glasses got lost. not my fault.
Mis gafas se perdieron.
My glasses were mislaid. not necessarily my fault
Mis gafas han sido extraviados.
wow!!! how much answers! Thanks to all!
I wanted classify my questions. maybe in some questions yes or no is enough for me.
1- how can i say: "He told himself it" ?
Daniela translated: "Se lo dijo él" or maybe: "Se lo dijo a él" . I don't understood which one do you mean?
annierats translared: "Se lo dijo a si mismo"
which one is correct?
2- Daniela wrote: se lo dijo a ella. = he said it to her. "se" is fake se. (changed from "le lo")
Suppose there is a background of story that who is he (for example i know he is a mad man) then I make this sentence:
"se lo dijo"
According to spanishdict dictionary: decirse (pronominal verb) 1. to say to oneself
So i can translate above sentence such as: "he said it to himself"
Now I forget "the mad man story" and I use Daniela view for translating: he said it to him/her.
Therefore can i say: "se lo dijo" has two translation according to situation.
3- Is direct object pronoun "la" just for "a feminine person"? or "la" can be used for "feminine noun" in general?
4- Please forget the sentence: "He was said by her." focus in this sentence: "It was said by her"
Imagine this scenario:
The brother of my friend has died in an accident. I and my wife are aware of this accident but my friend doesn't know. we decide not to inform him for some reasons. But accidentally my friend hear this news behind the door. My wife get angry and ask me: "Why did you tell this news to your friend?" I answer: "This is not my fault, the awareness of this subject occurred by himself although I told that"
So with this background i make this sentence:
"It was said by me" = "se me dijo"
or similar above one: "It was said by him" = "se le dijo"
are these sentence correct?
Lo de hablar con si mismo se llama habla privada.
I don't understand the question properly.
I think you have to clarify by saying ` asi mismo'.
Se lo dijo a si mismo. He told himself( it, whatever it was). Do you see what I mean?
Se lo dijo asi mismo que habrá de dejar las llaves en el coche. ( He told himself that he must have left the keys in the car). This example is made up by me and may therefore be faulty, please beware.
What a silent topic!!!
In respect of your latest question I think:
"It was said by me" = "se me dijo" No. Lo dije yo. "It was said by him" = "se le dijo" No. él lo dijo.
The 'it' here is the ' lo'.
I think I've understood the question!
Se dice normally means : it is said, an impersonal statement.
Example: Se dice que los italianos son los mejores amantes.-- It is said that Italians are the best lovers. ( We don't know who says this, a general statement commonly accepted as truth).
Se dice que hemos superado la crisis económica--. It is said that we have overcome the economic crisis.
This is nothing to do with talking to oneself. Ex: El ladrón estaba hablando asi mismo.-- The crook was talking to himself. Yo me dije a mi mismo que debería llamar a la policía. -- I said to myself that I ought to call the police . ( this normally indicates reflextion, thinking aloud)
Thank you Daniela,
Your answer was usefull. But it caused to another question. I used "la" because "tontería" is female noun and i've heard there are little neutre noun in Spanish. But according to your example if the object is non-person i should use "lo" without considering gender.
It is very wonderfull using el or ella in the end of sentence. What is the role of el or ella in sentence? Is it object? Can i use them in the begining of sentence? Are they used just for clarify gender of "se"?
If an unknown person told to him something. I use this sentence:" he was said" but if i want to say who told that (by keeping that structure) i say: " he was said by herself" meaning: " she said him". I found like this structure in spanish for example: "se perdió el libro" and "se me perdió el libro". And i wanted to use this structure for "decir" verb.
