similarity between "se" passive and third person pronominal verb

Question

I think "se" passive verb and third person pronominal verb are the same. So how can i realize them?

for example:

pronominal verb:

se lava = he/she washes himself/herself

"se" passive:

se lava= he is washed

I just have two idea to make difference between them

1- using "a sí mismo" at the end of pronominal sentence :

se lava a sí mismo = he/she washes himself/herself

2- in "se" passive situation we use objective pronoun (accidental passive; no-fault se; ...):

se me lava= he is washed on me.

Any other idea?

Answer 1

I don't understand your question, exactly.

Present indicative: Se llava- from llavarse. He is washing himself. You don't need ' si mismo, it's provided by the reflexive se.

Passive: Su cadáver fue lavado por las enfermeras. ( His body was washed by the nurses).

I don't know if this helps.

Answer 2

Hi. Just a comment slightly off subject.

"Se" is the most confusing word in the Spanish language. There are too many uses.

• passive
• Impersonal
• Reflexive
• Pronomial
• IDO replacement

And sé:

• 1st person singular present of saber
• 2nd person affirmative imperative of ser

It takes a long time to get it all. Se/sé still confuses me after 7 years of living in Mexico. It is H A R D !!!

Yopu get my vote, which is a compliment, I have very limited Gigabytes and can't vote much any more. Spain! - annierats, Oct 25, 2014

What? Is Spain a third world country now. What's up annie? - gringojrf, Oct 25, 2014

Answer 3

@annierats

Your sentences was useful for me. I am beginner. I hadn't seen the position of object pronoun in the pronominal sentences. In the first post i just wanted to compare similarity in constructions for short sentences.

what is your idea about my below translation?

se la puso:

because "la" is direct object pronoun. So this construction is related to pronominal construction and i translate: he/she put it on.

se le puso:

because "le "is indirect object pronoun. So this construction is related to "passive se" construction (accidental or no-fault construction) and i translate: he/she was dressed "on him/her(another person)"

In English ' he was dressed by another person'. I think we then get se le lo puso. However, this is a terribly difficult area, as Gringo says and I hope some native or more advanced learner comes along. - annierats, Oct 26, 2014

Answer 4

Vale: Ponerse:

Juan se puso una chaqueta. Se la puso. ( Juan put a coat/jacket on)

Juan le puso la chaqueta a su novia. ( Juan put the jacket on his girlfriend) Se la puso para el frío. (He put it on because of the cold )

Se le la puso a su novia. He put it on his girlfriend.

Secon attempt to answer.. - annierats, Oct 25, 2014

Answer 5

Passive: Su cadáver fue lavado por las enfermeras. ( His body was washed by the nurses).

As you know, there are two method to make a passive sentence.

1- Passive voice like English: "ser" conjugation + past participle of verb

this method is less common.

2- Passive se: "se" + third person verb

this method is more common.

So I mean "passive se" maybe confused with pronominal verb (third person).

Yes, but you would probably avoid to many complications and use the ' ser' method. At least if you're a student, it is wise, belive you me, misunderstandings occur on far simpler sentences. Non stop in fact. - annierats, Oct 25, 2014