Confused about the Subjunctive in this sentence
Hi, I've just started reading up on the subjunctive and when it's used but i can't seem to understand it's purpose in this sentence,
Me dormí antes de que llegara mi mamá.- I fell asleep before my mom arrived.
I don't understand why, Me dormí antes de que llegó mi mamá., is wrong
In this sentence aren't you stating a fact or something that you believe to be true? I'm probably way off here so if anyone can clarify this for me it would be great, thanks
4 Answers
Ok .. don't be confused ... as opposed to common belief ,, subjunctive is not only used to express uncertainity ... the literal meaning of subjunctive is the expression of subjectivity in the subordinate clause (the sub in subjunctive stands for subordinate clause), now having said that ,, always remember that subjunctive is only used in the subordinate clauses (dependant clauses) and never in the main clause (with only three exceptions ,, deber, poder and querer ) and the subjectivity may mean a lot of different things (besides uncertainty) like anticipation, emotion, sugestion, negation, disbelief .....
Furthermore ,, there are different kinds of subordinate clauses and the rules of the application of subjunctive are different between different types of clauses .. The general concept of uncertainty, disbelief etc is only aplicable to one type of subordinate clause which is "subortinate noun clauses" ,,, but in your sentence the kind of clause used is not a noun clause and that is why you are getting confused ... this is rather an adverbial subordinate clause ... let me disect the sentence for you ... so you understand it better ..
It can be broken in to two parts .... 1st.. me dormí (I slept) .. this is the main clause .. 2nd ..antes de que llegara mi mamá..... now if we delve further deep into the structure of the sentence, the subordinate clause can further be broken down into two parts ... "antes de que" and llegara mi mamá... where "antes de que" is an adverbial conjunction (commonly known as an adverbial expression) joining the suordinate clause with the main clause ( like we use the conjunction "que" in the noun clauses .. for example deso que venga a la fiesta) ...
Ok .. so far so good .. now we are dealing with three elements or components which are coming together and forming this complex sentence ...
Now let me tell you the rule for the application of subjunctive for this clause type.... the rule is that there are two types of adverbial expressions (adverbial conjunctions) .. the first type comprises of those which will invariably need a subjunctive (for example : para que, a fin de que, antes de que etc.) And the key concept underlying the use of subjumctive in this clause type is anticipation ,,, so whenever you see any of the adverbial conjunctions (of the first type) you know for sure that the subj6nctive is needed and if you see any other adverbial conjunction starting the subordinate adverbial clause (example despues de que) then you need to analyse and see if there is any thing being anticipated or not ... for example ... voy a comer despues de que venga mi novia (now here I am anticipating the arrivial of my beloved, though her arrival may be almost certain but it is still an anticipation) ,,, so the subjunctive is needed .. now look at this example ... comí despues de que vino mi novia (now here, this is just a narration of a past event which I knew happened so no subjumctive needed) .. ok now lets look at "antes de que" used in the same example ,, comí antes de que viniera mi novia ( I ate before my beloved arrived) now here the subjunctive is still needed because at the time the action took place in the past(when I ate my food) the arrival of my beloved was still anticipated (so which is why after the adverbial conjunctions of the first type , including antes de que, para que, a fin de que etc, a subjunctive is always needed because they always convey some degree of anticipation) ..
So don't be confused .. whenever you see the adverbial conjunction "antes de que" just close your eyes and use the subjumctive without thinking too much ..
I know this was a little grammar heavy but subjunctive is a little comlicated concept and there is no short cut to learn it .. people who think that they can get a handle over it by learning some trigger words etc are in my opinion just deluding themselves .. so be patient with subjunctive ,, it will take some time to sink in ... best of luck
the literal meaning of subjunctive is the expression of subjectivity in the subordinate clause (the sub in subjunctive stands for subordinate clause)
I would question the overall accuracy of this statement. The "literal" meaning of the word subjunctive has nothing to do with subjectivity. The term taken at face value means to append or to subjoin.
Although the prefix, "sub-," does not in and of itself carry the meaning of subordinate clause, the use of the grammatical term modus subiunctivus does likely stem from a translation of the Greek loan-expression "hypotaktike enklisis," an expression that carries the meaning of subordinated. It should be noted that the link between subordination and the subjunctive mood is largely due to the analyses of classical Greek texts in which it was observed that the subjunctive mood was typically only found in subordinate clauses.
always remember that subjunctive is only used in the subordinate clauses (dependant clauses) and never in the main clause (with only three exceptions ,, deber, poder and querer )
Again, this assertion appears to lacks accuracy. Consider the following usages of the subjunctive, all of which occur in the main clause and in absence of any of the three verbs listed above.
- “Posiblemente vengan nuevas acciones, nuevas incautaciones”, dijo Castellanos. —El Heraldo.hn
- Van Gaal: "Tal vez gane el que tenga más suerte" —Urgente24.com
- Esta nueva versión seguramente venga incentivada por las críticas que recibió el final de la serie por parte de sus seguidores. —LaVozDigital.es
- Sea como sea, tenemos que recordar que son niños inocentes que se sienten solos.... —aciprensa.com
- Ojalá pueda dejar una marca en este equipo. —El Comercial.com.ar
which is why after the adverbial conjunctions of the first type , including antes de que, para que, a fin de que etc, a subjunctive is always needed because they always convey some degree of anticipation.
While the idea of anticipated events or actions can certainly be applied to certain scenarios, I would hesitate to assert that this is true of all cases. If we take anticipation to mean something along the lines of "events yet unrealized but expected to occur," then with a few key examples, we can easily see that the aforementioned use of the subjunctive does not always go hand-in-hand with the idea of anticipation. Take the following sentence, for example:
- Es una buena oportunidad para que los niños se alejen del computador de las tareas y los cuadernos, y se entreguen a la maravilla que es el proceso creativo
There is nothing in the use of the subjunctive, here, that allows us to entertain the notion of anticipation. The use of the subjunctive tells us nothing as to whether the notion of "the kids getting away from there typical school chores and soaking in the creative process is something yet unrealized, something that has already occurred or something already occurring. The reason for this uncertainty has to do with the non-declarative nature of the subjunctive. This is the key difference between the subjunctive and the indicative; namely, the subjunctive is used to avoid declarations. In the sentence above, the indicative declares to us that "it (whatever it happens to be) is a good idea." In this case, the children changing up their routines in the manner described above is declared "a good thing." Whether such a change has occurred or not is incidental and not defined by the subjunctive.
Let's take a look at another example:
- La imagen fue sacada unos tres días antes de que se encontrara el cadáver de la cantante.
Again, nothing here suggests that the discovery of the singer's body was an anticipated event. As with the previous example, the subjunctive verb form simply allows us to convey the idea in a non-declarative fashion. In this way, the utterance acts more like a noun phrase, and allows an idea to be conveyed without making any particular declaration one way or another about it. With this concept of declarative-vs-non-declarative in mind, compare the following two utterances:
- Se encontró el cadáver de la cantante unos tres días después de que la imagen fuese sacada. — The singer's body was found some three days after the picture being taken.
- La imagen fue sacada unos tres días antes de que se encontrara el cadáver de la cantante. — The picture was taken some three days before the singer's body would be found.
Notice that neither "the picture being taken" (first sentence) nor "the singer's body would be found" (second sentence) can be taken as declarative in nature and are not, therefore, very useful in terms of informational content. That is, in the first sentence we are not explicitly told (via a declaration) that, "The picture was taken" nor is there any explicit declaration about "the finding of the singer's body" in the second sentence.
I'm not sure whether this clears up any confusion as to the original question; however, it might, perhaps, head off some additional misconceptions that might have occurred.
I've just started reading up on the subjunctive and when it's used but i can't seem to understand it's purpose in this sentence,
Me dormí antes de que llegara mi mamá.- I fell asleep before my mom arrived.
I don't understand why, Me dormí antes de que llegó mi mamá., is wrong
In this sentence aren't you stating a fact or something that you believe to be true? I'm probably way off here so if anyone can clarify this for me it would be great, thanks.
Let's take into consideration the obvious fact that, despite their many structural similarities, Spanish and English are two separate languages that enjoy their own distinct syntactic nuances. Much of the confusion here appears to stem from the fact that this rather obvious presupposition has partly been ignored. Namely, it seems that there has been an attempt to interpret this particular instance of Spanish syntax by artificially imposing a logic based on English syntactic arrangements.
Let's take a look at your original interpretation:
I fell asleep before my mom arrived
This is perfect and typical of English syntax. However, we should be wary of expecting a similar syntactic arrangement when we translate this sentence to Spanish. When attempting to translate ideas from one language to another, we must always be cognizant of the fact that the ideas being conveyed will not always fit into the same identical structure as we pass from one language to the next. This is especially true when dealing with the subjunctive. In the Spanish sentence, we use the subjunctive because the fact of "my mother's arrival" is not the focal point of sentence but rather an incidental detail. To the Spanish speaker, the key declaration is not that "my mother arrived" but rather that "I fell asleep." Mother's arriving, again, is considered incidental. That is, it is not being declared but instead, is presented as information to be taken for granted. In this way, the informational content is very low for utterances that are conveyed via the subjunctive.
If we were to try to remain more faithful to the original Spanish syntactic arrangement, we would have to say something along the lines of:
- I fell asleep before my mother had arrived.
- I fell asleep before my mother's arriving.
Either of these might better convey the original Spanish syntactic arrangement; however, in terms of usage and intelligibility, our original translation would probably be the most reliable. Again, this has to do with the fact that the syntax varies from language to language, and when attempting translations, we should understand this fact.
Hopefully, the ideas of informational content and declaration/non-declaration do not come off as too confusing. In some senses, the use of the subjunctive is very similar to the way in which verbal nouns are used in English to complete ideas without making an explicit declaration. For example:
- I am happy about you being here.
- I want her to come.
There are frases such as "antes de que" that always will require subjunctive no matter what. By the way, antes means before.
