Gramatical Question

Question

I am struggling with how you would say a couple things. First, I am unsure how to say "I should have..." done something. For example, If I wanted to say "I should've studied," would it be: debía haber estudiado?

Or what if I said, I wish I would've studied. I don't think this would be the subjunctive because there isn't a change in subjects. My guess would be: Espero que había estudiado.

Any feedback/suggestions is greatly appreciated.

Please fill out your profile so that we may better help you , welcome to the forum Buena suerte . - ray76, May 31, 2014

"I wish I would've studied." is bad English - "I wish I had studied" is better. :0 - ian-hill, May 31, 2014

How so, Ian? Is there a reference for this? :) - rac1, May 31, 2014

Ian is right Annie, Kindly read my explanation below .. thanks .. - 00b055e0, May 31, 2014

A reference - rac1, Jun 1, 2014

Answer 1

Should is an advisory word and tener que (have to) is obligatory, so for the first sentence I would say: Debería haber estudiado.

I agree on sentence one. What about sentence two? - gringojrf, May 31, 2014

For the second one I would say "Ojalá hubiera estudiado..." ... What do you guys think? - NikkiLR, May 31, 2014

I agree - Colin4312, May 31, 2014

Nikki, I would also say it as you suggest but Agusmarín´s use of "desear"is OK too. It´s regional usage - 005faa61, May 31, 2014

Great... thanks! - NikkiLR, May 31, 2014

Exactly what i would have said: Debería haber estudiado.:) - FELIZ77, May 31, 2014

Answer 2

Native English speaker here says that "I wish I had studied" is better English than "I wish I would have studied."

Since either form is both comprehensible and acceptable, I'm not sure how one might be considered "better English" than the other. The first example (I wish I had...) makes use of a subjunctive verb form; whereas, the second makes use of a modal auxiliary ("would"). Both produce the same effect. Again, either form is acceptable. Usage here is more a question of style than it is a question of correctness.

I agree. - rac1, May 31, 2014

I agree too :) ... - 00b055e0, May 31, 2014

Either form may be comprehensible, but the second form is not acceptable among those who speak English correctly - Ian is right - 005faa61, May 31, 2014

@ Julian....Do you have a reference on this? - rac1, May 31, 2014

yes Ian is right as far as grammar is concerned .. because like Spanish we also have subjunctive mood in English .. which is used the most in the contrary to fact if clauses and hypothetical sentences .. - 00b055e0, May 31, 2014

for example ... I wish I were as strong as he-man .. ,, here we have used subjunctive of "to be" and not the regular indicative past tense .. "was" .. - 00b055e0, May 31, 2014

now like in Spanish, In eglish also a subjunctive is requird in various dependant clauses if some comand, opinion, purpse, wish, desire etc, is expressed in the main clasuse ... now. if we look at the structure of the sentence being discussed here .. - 00b055e0, May 31, 2014

Ii wish I would have studied .. this sentence has two parts .. 1st one is the main clause (I wish) and second is the subordinate noun clause (I would have studied).. now here .. in the main clause a wish is being expressed which triggers the use of - 00b055e0, May 31, 2014

subjuntive .. In spanish we will not use a subjunctive because Spanish requires a different subject in the depndant clause for the use of subjunctive .. but lets not delve into spanish fo now .. hehe .. now, I would have studdied is actually the - 00b055e0, May 31, 2014

conditional perfect conjugation and doesn't make sense gramatically being used in a subordinate clause .. because a condition is always expressed in the main clause .. for example .. I would have studdied if I had the resources .. So as far as Grammar is - 00b055e0, May 31, 2014

concerned I completely agree with Ian but yes indeed there are many things which people speak against the rules of grammar ,, and even though I don't like the idea of being ungrammatical,., it is the way it is .. haha .. but Ian is correct - 00b055e0, May 31, 2014

and even if it were not for the subjunctive the conditional can never be used in a subordinate clause .. logically thinking ,, a subordinate clause is dependant on the main clause and can't stand alone by itself and you can't impose a conditional mood in - 00b055e0, May 31, 2014

a clause that can't even stand on it's own .. The conditional is always in the main clause where the condition is expressed or implied .. I would eat it (with an implied condition ,, it I am hungry),, I would do the job if I get paid well for it (explicit - 00b055e0, May 31, 2014

or express condition .. but one can't say .. I wish I would have eaten ,,, One must say ,.. I wish (that) I ate (where that is the hidden conjunction joining the main clause and the subordinate clause .. ok bye now .. hehe - 00b055e0, May 31, 2014

Reference? - rac1, Jun 1, 2014

Dear Annie, I will have to google up some grammar articles online to help you with some reference ... allow me some time please .. thanks - 00b055e0, Jun 1, 2014

@ Jimmy...I wasn't asking you for a reference necessarily. I was asking anyone. - rac1, Jun 2, 2014

Answer 3

hi,
How i'd say those expressions is : "Tendría que haber estudiado" and "Desearía haber estudiado"

Answer 4

" I wish I would have" or "I wish I had"

It would appear that the former is in common usage in the USA - it is not heard much in England. Of course it is easily understood and may even go unnoticed when spoken.

Are there other places in the world where it is used?

Common usage may make it acceptable but

My question is this:

• why use the Modal "would" when none is needed to convey the same meaning?

I am not sure if a Modal is ever needed after a verb. It is normally used before a verb.

Thanks Ian :) - rac1, Jun 2, 2014

Answer 5

Native English speaker here says that "I wish I had studied" is better English than "I wish I would have studied." Not sure it makes a difference in the Spanish translation, but jus' sayin'.

It doesn't and therein lies a problem for Spanish speakers. - ian-hill, Jun 2, 2014

Answer 6

Either form may be comprehensible, but the second form is not acceptable among those who speak English correctly - Ian is right

I've never been to the UK, so I have no personal experience that allows me to vouch for the acceptability of this particular syntactic structure in that particular region of the world; however, in the states, I can firmly attest to the fact that I have never once been repudiated, renounced or rejected for making such an utterance. More importantly, I have never been misunderstood—thus passing the real litmus test behind any inquiry into the suitability of any particular syntactic structure.

For the sake of transparency, I should probably admit that I am, in fact, aware of the proscribed status of this particular usage amongst some prescriptive grammarians, especially those living on the other side of the pond. That being said, it would not be a difficult task to find abundant references on the web that censure this usage in the same regurgitated fashion. In none of these, however, have I found a single justification or even a semi-relevant analysis or discussion on the topics of modality, or the effect of analytic vs. synthetic structures in the English modal system (both of these being extremely pertinent to any discussion related to the logic—or lack thereof—inherent to these particular forms). Instead, such argument always seem to end with the same thinly veiled ad hominem attack on the countless number of misinformed miscreants who, despite a lifetime of experience, apparently, don't speak English "correctly."

While I would personally welcome a genuine and open discussion related to the underlying logic or perceived inconsistencies inherent to these particular analytic structures, I doubt (human obstinacy being what it is) that such a discussion would sway many minds, one way or the other. Unfortunately, as I reflect on the degree to which my initial comments have already hijacked (unintentionally) this thread, I think it better, perhaps, to simply agree to disagree.

Well said. - rac1, Jun 2, 2014

Common usage may make it acceptable but - why use a Modal when none is needed to convey the same meaning? - ian-hill, Jun 2, 2014

Answer 7

Hello Chalsie,

Welcome to the SpanishDict forum

First, I am unsure how to say "I should have..." done something. For example, If I wanted to say "I should've studied," would it be: debía haber estudiado?

Debería haber estudiado .. = I should have studied .. ( Debería haber = I should have + past particple of desired verb, eg: estudiado, hablado, escrito etc....

You said

I wish I would've studied.

(would've = would have)

You can use the construction would have in English, or I had + past participle of verb and both are correct but what seems to clash in this sentence, in my opinion, is the uncomfortable combination of: I wish and would have in the same sentence! iT sounds very odd to my ears as a native English speaker!

I think that It sounds better in English to say,: I wish that ( if only) I had studied

= Si solo había estudiado / Quería / Esperaba ...que había estudiado ...

Or: I would have studied more if I had not been ill

= Habría estudiado más si no estuviera enfermo.

I hope this helps

Corrijan mi español, por favor

It doesn't sound odd in the U.S. That is the reason I asked for a reference about this rule. - rac1, Jun 1, 2014

yes my friend (Feliz) it is a clash beween subjumctive and conditional moods .. you are right .. and also conditional can technically not come in dependant clauses .... - 00b055e0, Jun 1, 2014

and Annie my friend, I will sure try to find some reference for you .. but don't worry too much about this one .. I many people are acustomed speaking this way ,, so as long as it is acceptable in the region you live in ,, slight departure from the gramm - 00b055e0, Jun 1, 2014

grammar is fine in my opinion (in the practical world) .. hehe .. but I will still try my best to find some reference .. ok .. take care my friends - 00b055e0, Jun 1, 2014

dependent*(typo) - 00b055e0, Jun 1, 2014

Answer 8

This question has really got me thinking. Usually a bad thing as I tend to confuse myself.

I wish I would have studied.

I wish -> this seems to me to be a present indicative statement.

I would have -> this seems to be subjunctive as it is contra to the truth but because there is no change in subject perhaps conditional.

studied -> seems straight forward past participle land.

So the two options offered:

Espero que había estudiado. Espero (present indicative) que había (imperfect) estudiado (past participle)

and

Desearía haber estudiado. Desearía (conditional) haber (infinitive) estudiado (past participle)

I tend to lean towards a third: Espero que habría estudiado. Espero (present indicative) que habría (conditional) estudiado (past particple)

Native speaker clarification? Please?

"I wish I would've studied." is bad English - "I wish I had studied" is better.:) - ian-hill, May 31, 2014

my friend .. if you say "espero que" you would need to use the subjunctive in the subordinate clause (per the spanish grammar rules) - 00b055e0, May 31, 2014

kindly look at my answer and discuss if you wish .. regards - 00b055e0, May 31, 2014

I'm only saying that "I wish I would have" is bad English. - ian-hill, May 31, 2014

Yes I agre with you Ian .. but my comment was for gringojrf ,, It was my sugestion or advice to him regarding his answer .. hehe - 00b055e0, May 31, 2014

suggestion* - 00b055e0, May 31, 2014

Answer 9

Espero que hubiera estudiado. // I wish I had studdied (would have studdied) .. a subjunctive is required in this one ( in the subordinate noun clause)..

Habría estudiado si pudiera // I would have studdied if I could have.

Debería estudiado si quisiera aprobar el examen ( I must have, should have studdied if I wanted to pass the examen) ..

Hope this helps ..

and I should have done some thing should be : debería haber hecho algo .. hehe - 00b055e0, May 31, 2014