no continuen vs no paren

Question

Hi all,

I just got the following question wrong because I spelled my second attempt (which was the word they actually wanted wrong (paraen when it should have been paren)

But my real question is why it was the verb parar instead of continuar in the first place.

Here´s the sentence.

Hasta que no (parar/continuar) las inundaciones, el turismo no va a mejorar.

We have to choose the correct verb in its correct form. After initially choosing continuen and getting it wrong, I assumed they wanted a form of parar and put in paraen (a typo) and it told me what I assumed, which was that it wanted paren.

But I don´t understand. Without the word ¨No¨ paren would make sense to me.

But ¨until NoT stopping-halting¨ makes no sense to me here. The improvements would happen if the floods didn´t continue, right? Not until they stop?

I´m very confused.

Can someone help pretty please?

thx roger

I'm with you on the confusion! - modrak, Dec 9, 2013

Answer 1

Hasta que no (parar/continuar) las inundaciones, el turismo no va a mejorar.

We can say: Mientras continúen las inundaciones, el turismo no va a mejorar / Mientras no se paren las inundaciones, el turismo no va a mejorar / Hasta que no se paren las inundaciones, el turismo no va a mejorar.

The last variant is a form used that requires a connotation of "double negative" such as "no hay nada" , so it´s best to avoid translating it directly because it won´t make sense in English. Just remember this form.

ASí es!!! The first 2 make perfect sense and with your help I think the 3rd eventually will.THANKs!!! So, it is an implicit required double negative! Very interesting and non-obvious to we gringos.Mil gracias! - rogspax, Dec 9, 2013

Tiny side question; why subjunctive after mientras? Even though its not a trigger, just due to uncertainty of possible stopping? - rogspax, Dec 9, 2013

I´m not certain why other that it sounds right and that´s how we say it, but subjunctive makes sense in all 3 variants because the action is unresolved, so I think your reasoning is OK too. - 005faa61, Dec 9, 2013

And don´t rely on "triggers" too much; many times there is a choice available between indicative and subjunctive, it´s a matter of which nuance you want - 005faa61, Dec 9, 2013

I´m slowly learning not to rely on them exclusively, but I´m not fully weaned, and they´re a useful learning-checking device until we develop a real feel. - rogspax, Dec 10, 2013

Answer 2

I think your brain fried momentarily.... ;-D

Parar - stop

Continuar = continue

Now...

Until these don't.....

not not.

I know, I would go there to help you with the kicking session....

;D

;) - rogspax, Dec 9, 2013

Yes, verbs meaning exactly the opposite! - annierats, Dec 9, 2013

Answer 3

Good question, I would have expected 'no se paren' after 'mientras que' (while) but not after 'hasta que' (until).

The question is, is it an error or an anomaly? jeje.

my thoughts exactly kiwi, thanks, as always, for chiming in. - rogspax, Dec 9, 2013

Julian seems to have nailed it though I need to search for a bunch of similar examples and stare and mull this one over a great deal. - rogspax, Dec 9, 2013

:) - Kiwi-Girl, Dec 9, 2013

Answer 4

It is still fried. But I'm willing to accept the kicking assistance. I need it right now, or more accurately, when I accepted work in Mexico the week before finals.

I get the don't vs not part.

But "until these don't stop" makes no sense to me.

Until they (DO) stop would make sense.

And

"Until they don't continue" would kind of make sense.

But they want "hasta que no paren" which just loses me.

Edit:

This a grey area for me too, since native English speakers seem impervious to the subjunctive mood in English and the fact of the negation forms in both languages.

In Spanish:

...hasta que no paren - Not until (they, whatever) stop...

I wrote "until they don't stop" which would be equally good as "not until they stop", right?

Does that help?

It's just Spanish Rog.. - annierats, Dec 9, 2013

I know, I guess it is part of the subjunctive that English do not use anymore... ? I wouldlike to edit your post above.... so we can keep the conversation in this one place. Is that OK, or would you rather me answering conventionally by adding a reply? - chileno, Dec 10, 2013

Please edit away. That should make it more useful for others glancing at it later. - rogspax, Dec 10, 2013

OK. - chileno, Dec 11, 2013