Sepa vs Supiera

Question

Hi all I was responding to a Spanish colleague from Barcelona about a possible visit and wanted to say, half joking, that I´d be up for it if they´d tolerate a guy totally unversed in Vosotros forms. After I wrote and sent it (see below) I began to wonder if the ¨sepa¨ shouldn´t have maybe been supiera. In other words, I don´t know if having once put part of the phrase in imperfect subjunctive, does the subsequent hypothetical also have to remain in the past subjunctive? I know Spanish is much pickier about clauses matching in time, in some contexts, but am not sure about this.

Tendría ganas de saber más acerca esta clase en enero y la compañia Andreani también, si creyeras que la gente pueda tolerar un gringo que no sepa nada de decir o usar la forma vosotros.

Yes, god only knows, there could be other problems in the sentence and I´d be glad to hear them, but I´m mostly trying to focuse on the sepa vs supiera..

Hmm, now that I think about it, I should maybe be inquiring the same about pueda y pudiera.

I´m all ears.

Thanks in advance

Roger

Answer 1

.... acerca de ......

si creyeras que la gente podría ..... (These two subjunctive forms complement each other).

...tolerar un gringo que no supiera nada de decir o usar la forma vosotros. (because the whole passage is hypothetical).

But it would be more natural to say: Tengo ganas de saber más acerca de esta clase en enero y de la compañia Andreani también. Si crees que la gente puede tolerar un gringo que no sepa nada de decir o usar la forma vosotros, [adelante pues].

I agree. I would add: "... que no sepa nada sobre como decir o usar la forma vosotros..." - RelaxingCup, Dec 5, 2013

Thanks Julian and RC. - rogspax, Dec 5, 2013

Answer 2

Tendría ganas de saber más acerca de esta clase en enero y de la compañia Andreani también, si creyeras que la gente puede/pudiera tolerar a un gringo que no sepa nada de decir o usar la forma vosotros.

That's how I would say this. But, as I always ask, please provide an English original version too.

:-D

I know why I am asking for that.

Thanks Chileno. - rogspax, Dec 5, 2013

Although, if there were a choice between forms of poder, I would have thought between present subjunctive vs present indicative, or, between present vs imperfect subjunctive. These two options seem at either extreme. - rogspax, Dec 5, 2013

Context dictates what to use. - chileno, Dec 6, 2013

Answer 3

Rog, I just spent 10 mins, rewriting yours, and it came out very close to Relaxing's comment. Therefore, there is no gain in putting it up. Just goes to show I should read the comments before starting! Although I feel quite proud, actually.

As I see it, you are basically not totally hypothetical, it's more of a future uncertainty. Therefore present and present subjunctive?

That's how it comes out to me. For what it's worth.

Thanks Annie, for the answer, and extra effort. - rogspax, Dec 5, 2013

Answer 4

Hi Julian,

If you´ll indulge me, I want to scratch a tiny bit deeper. Sticking to my less natural form for a bit, just to stick with its inherent grammar less, 2/3 of the answer I understand reasonably well, and it was just what I needed. But I¨d like to understand a bit better on part, and then fix the part I´m especially unsure of. .

1.

.... acerca de ......

Thanks, of course. Got it. I still forget that sometimes, especially if focusing on some other bit of the grammar. Need to work on my linguistic multi-tasking a bit. .

2.

...tolerar un gringo que no supiera nada de decir o usar la forma vosotros. (because the whole passage is hypothetical).

OK, this part I almost get. We didn´t cover this exact thing in class, where a whole phrase or clause, perhaps with multiple verbs, might need to have everything in the subjunctive imperfect. We just did simple Si clauses with an introduction of the hypothetical denoted by Si-plus-imperfectsubjunctive followed by conditional, such as. Si ganara la lotería, compraría una nuevo tostador.

We also learned present subjunctive for phrases like ¨Busco una serviente que no sepa nada de inglés¨ .

So, I would have thought that was like my above part where I wrote ¨no sepa nada¨ which uses the present subjunctive.

So, are you saying, in this case I must use the past subjunctive superiera instead of the present subjunctive sepa because the whole clause was made hypothetical by si creyeras? I just need to get that straight in my head, while reconciling with the below. .

3.

si creyeras que la gente podría ..... (These two subjunctive forms complement each other).

So, we learned podría as being conditional, not subjunctive, so, first, that terminology confuses me a bit

Secondly, we learned to follow an initial subjunctive (creyeras) with a conditional (podría etc) but, just for hypotheticals, I X were to happen (imperfect subjunctive) Then would occur Y (conditional).

But, this doesn´t look like that scenario. In other words, it seems like your above correction where the whole thing might need to be in past subjunctive, and not a conditional, and thus requiring pudieran. It´s strictly talking about the hypothetical belief of the person being addressed, and not a condition.

So, I think I can understand the second part (the supiera) but could use a little confirmation, but then, I really can´t quite understand the 3rd part, because if feels in conflict with the guidance on the second parts.

I promise I´m not trying to be difficult or contradictory. I just want to improve my understanding.

Muchísimas gracias.

Roger, what you have learned in class is all correct. You originally started with "Tendría ganas" and followed with imperfect subjunctive "creyeras" so this plus the rest created a problematic but hypothetical nuance. "I would like to" in English is not - 005faa61, Dec 5, 2013

as hypothetical as "tendría ganas" is in Spanish. We wouldn´t say it this way unless we were dreaming with no possiblity of it happening. I hope this explains it better - 005faa61, Dec 5, 2013

Thanks Julian, This sort of guidance to help us develop an feel and understanding, rather than just rely on rote triggers, is just what we need as we learn. I still need to better remember the levels of doubt implied by various means of expression. Thx - rogspax, Dec 5, 2013

Answer 5

y tambien despues "que" vas a usar el subjuntivo forma de sepa.

Thanks Chavofelix. I get that, but wasn´t sure which subjunctive, sepa (present) or supiera (past) - rogspax, Dec 5, 2013

Answer 6

estas correcto.

sepa....emociones....

supiera....would.