impersonal se vs passive se in practice (not theory)
This question has been addressed a lot, and I understand it having more to do wth classification than practical use. (There are some good explanations here)
But I have a doubt. I understand that there is not much difference between the following:
Se puede encontrar vestidos de seda en el mercado
Se pueden encontrar vestidos de seda en el mercado
The only difference, I think, is that the first one is passive (with emphasis on the object) and the second impersonal (emphasis on the unknown subject) Similar to "Dresses can be bought" versus "One can buy dresses".
However, I asked my Peruvian friend about this, and she told me that the difference between them might have more to do with if you are buying them from one store or from many stores. For example:
Anda a esta tienda, allá se puede encontar vestidos de seda.
Anda a estas 5 tiendas, allá se pueden encontrar vestidos de seda.
Is this true, or is it a colloquialism, or is it an over-generalization by her? Because at first she couldn´t tell me the difference between them.
Another example might be "se permite(n) fotos en el (los) museo(s)".
Thanks.
3 Answers
Poder is affected directly by the verb encontrar and not by the number of stores.
Anda a esa tienda, allá se puede encontrar vestidos de seda.
Anda a esas 5 tiendas, allá se puede encontrar vestidos de seda.
These are both passive voice, however, it would be more natural in either case to say:...... allá se encuentran vestidos de seda. Here encontrar is affected by vestidos, so it must be plural.
It seems that someone is confusing the use of third person plural - which we use to depersonalize but is still active voice - with passive voice.
Anda a esa tienda, allá pueden encontrar vestidos de seda.
Also note that allá indicates some distance/not close, so these stores should be referred to as esas tiendas.
"Se permiten fotos en el (los) museo(s)". In this case permitir, which is affected by fotos, which is plural, can only be plural. The number of museums makes no difference.
It sounds like you are concerned about the theory rather than the practical. In all of your examples, whether they are impersonal or passive they communicate the idea that dresses can be purchased in that location(s). Any of which will be understood as communicating the idea that dresses can be bought there. So in practice all of your sentences work.
Disclaimer: I am not a grammarian.
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