Why is it "se", not "me"?
I saw two expressions:
(1) ¿Puedo? (May/Can I?)
(2) ¿Se puede? (May I come in?)
I understand Sentence 1, but why is Sentence 2 translated as "May I come in?"
If it can be translated as "Can you(formal) let me in?", why isn't it "¿Me puede?"
7 Answers
Yes, as some folks have mentioned, they translated this one loosely, using the impersonal ´se´.
That makes it confusing. It may be nice to show you alternate ways of saying somethign, but if one is expecting a more direct translation, it can confuse.
It comes up a lot where in English we would use ¨one¨
One doesn´t ask. No se pregunta. .
One can enter. Se puede entrar (o pasar) .
Yes, one can do it. Sí, se puede. .
Or, as another form of passive.
Spanish is spoken (here)
(Aquí) se habla español.
Se vende café. Coffee is sold (here)
hope that helps.
Just google ´impersonal se´ and you´ll find a lot
Buena suerte!
Note, there are three articles on this site.
(1) Se habla español en Uruguay. (They speak Spanish in Uruguay.)
Sentence 1 is from "impersonal se". So, the word "Se" here refers to "unspecified or general They"?
(2) Se habla español aquí. (Spanish is spoken here.)
Sentence 2 is from "passive se". So, the word "Se" here refers to "the language Spanish"?
Honestly, it is very difficult for me to tell which one is "impersonal se" or "passive se".
Understandably. I can´t tell the difference here either. But, not, the ´se´ does not refer to "the language Spanish". It simply refers to something being said, but avoids naming the specific subject (the speaker).
OK; I went back and read it again. The difference is very very subtle, and using ¨se habla¨ was probably not a very good idea of an example.
In the first one, it is considered impersonal because the habla of se habla is a very describing what people generally do there. Impersonal is used to describe general activities and normal behaviors that pretty much everyone does. Instead of saying People speak Spanish here. We can say One speaks Spanish here. La gente habla español aquí. Se habla español aquí.
In the second, it can be considered passive because it is written from the perspective of the object (a noun) Spanish, is spoken. Kayaks, are rented. Unlike above, these are not general activities which everyone does, but rather, are about objects which can have some action performed on them.
I don´t think most of us think of these as two different things when using every day speech. It is a subtle things for grammarians to quibble about.
My conclusion after reading those pages about 3 times again.
The impersonal is more about what people do, even though those people are not mentioned
and.
The passive is about what is done to or with an object, and the people doing whatever that is, are not important.
A native might validly disagree, but in some of the examples cited, they are very close to the same, functionally.
Hi there!
- ¿Se puede (entrar)? - Is it allowed to come in?
This sentence is impersonal and omits the verb "entrar" - I totally understand your confusion.
[Revise my English, please]
(1) No se pregunta. ( I don't know what you meant by "One doesn´t ask". Do you mean "No one ask that question"? Or "That question is not allowed to be asked"?)
The second one is about right. We use it to state general rules of behavior and what one should and should not ask.
(2) Sí, se puede. (You translate it as "Yes, one can do it." But could it be possibly translated as "Yes, you may come in" or "Yes, it is allowed for you/someone/anyone to do" according to the different context?)
You are correct. I gave a specific example (which was also a popular political slogan here) but it can also be used more generally, as you wrote.
(3) How to say "Yes, I can make it" and "I made it" in Spanish?
Well, and answer from a native would be better, but my attempts would be:
Sí, puedo hacerlo. and Lo hice.
By the way, the links of the three articles you refer to do not work. Would you please fix them? Or, are they "impersonal se", "passive se" and "impersonal se vs. passive se"? If so, I have one more question after I read them.
Yes, I fixed them.
Hola, Roger,
Muchas gracias por tu ayuda. Your explanation really helps, but I still have some more questions.
(1) No se pregunta. ( I don't know what you meant by "One doesn´t ask". Do you mean "No one ask that question"? Or "That question is not allowed to be asked"?)
(2) Sí, se puede. (You translate it as "Yes, one can do it." But could it be possibly translated as "Yes, you may come in" or "Yes, it is allowed for you/someone/anyone to do" according to the different context?)
(3) How to say "Yes, I can make it" and "I made it" in Spanish?
By the way, the links of the three articles you refer to do not work. Would you please fix them? Or, are they "impersonal se", "passive se" and "impersonal se vs. passive se"? If so, I have one more question after I read them.
Here are two example sentences from the article "impersonal se vs. passive se".
(1) Se habla español en Uruguay. (They speak Spanish in Uruguay.)
Sentence 1 is from "impersonal se". So, the word "Se" here refers to "unspecified or general They"?
(2) Se habla español aquí. (Spanish is spoken here.)
Sentence 2 is from "passive se". So, the word "Se" here refers to "the language Spanish"?
Honestly, it is very difficult for me to tell which one is "impersonal se" or "passive se".
Hola, Roger,
Your Spanish is good enough, but you still read the three articles three times, then there is no reason for me not to read them as many times as you did. And I found something contradictory among them. In the article "impersonal se", "Se habla español aquí" is given as one of the example sentences; however, in the article "Impersonal se vs. passive se", the same example is listed under "passive se". No wonder I would be so confused about telling which is which. Maybe someone should proofread them again. But at least "Cómo se dice...?" is no problem with me. I learned it not from grammar but from the sentences I read or the conversation I heard before. After reading them several times, I gradually get used to this kind of sentence pattern. If my understanding of "se" is correct, it is like "People say..., they say..., it is said.., how to say..." in English. Thank you very much for sparing no effort to help me understand the usage about "se." You are very sweet and very patient. There is no doubt that you are a great asset to SpanishDict.
By the way, I quote what I asked, what you answered, and what the article mentioned about "passive se" in the following. Just for your referene, and I agree with you that let's leave it to grammarians.
Me: (2) Se habla español aquí. (Spanish is spoken here.)
Sentence 2 is from "passive se". So, the word "Se" here refers to "the language Spanish"?
You: But, not, the ´se´ does not refer to "the language Spanish". It simply refers to something being said, but avoids naming the specific subject (the speaker).
From Articel "Passive se": The pronoun se is used in passive sentences where the object to which the noun refers is also the subject of the verb.
