Is it "se cree está" or "se cree estar"?

Question

News excerpt -- Snowden, que se cree está en Hong Kong, también escribió que la verdad sobre los programas de vigilancia se sabrá y que el gobierno estadounidense “no podrá ocultarla metiéndome a prisión o matándome”.

Sorry for these trivial questions but I tend to rely on this community to reinforce what I believe I know -- but there's always a little uncertainty. For example, I believe that the phrase "se cree está" should be "se cree estar". Snowden, who is believed to be in Hong Kong....

I also believe that “no podrá ocultarla metiéndome a prisión o matándome” should be “no podrá ocultarla por metiéndome a prisión o por matándome”. ...they will not be able to hide it by putting me in prison or by killing me.

Any, and all feedback welcomed. Thanks.

Answer 1

I see what you mean in the first part, but I think if you insert commas or parentheses, it might be okay:

Snowden, que, (se cree), está en Hong Kong

Snowden, who (it is believed) is in Hong Kong

ie, the clause is "que está en Hong Kong" but it has another clause "se cree" inserted in it to qualify it.

For the second, if you read this bit from this source, it is clear that using “por” would not be correct, it is implicit in the gerundio:

http://users.ipfw.edu/jehle/courses/gerund.htm

II .C The gerund in adverbial phrases

1. To express “by (do)-ing (something)” when it comes after a verb, normally the gerund is used :

Ella ganó miles de dólares escribiendo cuentos cortos. She earned thousands of dollars by writing short stories.

Mejoré mi técnica como violinista practicando ocho horas al día.

I improved my technique as a violinst by practicing eight hours a day.

Perdieron el partido haciendo un error increíble...

The lost the game by making one incredible mistake...

1. Note that the this idea is not expressed by preposition por plus an infinitive. Por used in that way means things like “because of (do)-ing (something)” or “for the sake of (do)-ing (something)”:

Salió por ser cobarde.

He left because of being [because he was] a coward.

bosquederoble, thanks for the link. I see a lot of instances of the "se cree está" construct. I don't ever remember learning "is thought to be" written specifically like that in spanish. - cdunn3, Jun 22, 2013

Answer 2

Thanks annierats. Really has me stumped on this one! I guess my real question - Is se cree está a specific construct or idiom that means is thought to be/is believed to be?

I see it used at http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeti and http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/I?t?. There are also numerous instances at www.linguee.com/ when you do a search for se cree está.

Answer 3

Snowden, que se cree está en Hong Kong,

The verb está refers to he (Snowden) - it is correct. It´s the same as saying Snowden, que se cree que él está en Hong Kong............

Thanks Julian. Is "se cree está " a standard sentence construct with 2 conjugated verbs following each other? - cdunn3, Jun 22, 2013

Answer 4

Supongo que podemos decir ' se cree' sin problemas.

O, Snowden, quién , por supuesto , está en Hon kong..

Pero estoy segura que no necesitas ningún 'por' en la segunda parte.

Answer 5

Thanks bosquederoble. Your source to address my second question is wonderful. I understand better the construct.

Still not sure I understand why there are two conjugated verbs in the first sentence. If it were as you described, won't there be commas or something to separate out the "se cree" from the rest of the sentence?

Trying to add this as a link, but: I cannot get it to work without changing the exact search I used. It deletes the E1 and sends to the wrong search. There should be a "percentage sign" followed by E1 at the end, but apparently the code here will not allow me to put it in- it deletes everything past the percentage sign- plz enter the site manually and follow the est at the end by 3 keystrokes, a percentage sign, then E then 1.

http://www.linguee.com/english-spanish/search?source=auto&query=se+cree+est

I cannot say I am familar with the "se cree" construction, which is why I cannot explain why it seems to allowed. However the link to linguee I will put after this does show other examples of it being done. - bosquederoble, Jun 21, 2013

Answer 6

Thanks JulianChivi. So I take it that se cree está is an informal way of que se cree que él está. What makes this difficult for me is that this is the only time I am aware where two conjugated verbs are right next to each other. Again, thanks.

Common but not informal. I included "él" (not necessary in a real sentence) only to show verb conjugation of "estar", so "Snowden, que se cree que está en Hong Kong ....." is the other way to say this - 005faa61, Jun 22, 2013