Use of "se" in this sentence
I encountered these two sentences while doing Spanish lessons:
El hombre roba la ropa de la tienda. (context: a man is exiting a store with clothes bulging out from his jacket. translation given: "He´s stealing clothes from the store.")
El hombre se roba una laptop (context: a man with a suspicious eyes is tucking a laptop under his arm. translation given: "This man is stealing a laptop.")
I´d like to know why "se" is used in the second sentence but not the first sentence and what "se" represents in that sentence, the "hombre" (himself) or the "laptop" (itself)?
Longer version: The only thing I could think of is that this is some sort of pronomial use of the verb "robar". But, all the dictionaries I´ve looked at list no special pronomial meanings. And, even if that were the case, why use "se" in sentence 2 but not sentence 1? These sentences look almost identical to me. The subjects are identical. They both are transitive uses of a verb. I don´t get it.
11 Answers
This se is called "dativo de interés" and although the general meaning is going to be the same the 'se' puts emphasis on the benefit that the person gets from the action. The translation will probably be identical - the man is stealing a laptop but the nuance is different, that he's doing it for himself (perhaps instead of stealing it to sell on, although adding that bit may be taking it a bit too far, but just to give you the idea jeje)
Trieltor: Please pay close attention to the following:
¿En qué se gana la vida ese hombre?
El hombre roba ropa en la tiendas
El hombre se robó esa ropas en la tienda de la esquina.
El hombre se roba una cosa en la tienda y le echaron la culpa a otro.
Study these and come back with your questions about these, right in this thread. OK?
Functor precedes.
[Doubltess Trieltor will follow]
The program the estimable Trieltor is referring to, methinks, is a particularly corrosive and subversive one, in many different directions, and of both English and Spanish. Worse, the same approach has been commoditized in other "language products", spreading the poison quietly and by misdirection, but globally...
Methinks that English and Spanish and the rest have much more of a surviving dative, as a cryptotype of many forms, than most are now allowed to think, especially those who tinker at the language game and think "Methinks" means "I think".
There is more Hegel there than one might think perhaps.
Ancient Greek has an overtly marked middle voice. Latin did not, nor do English, German, Spanish, French, etc.
Russians are much more sensitive to the so-called "mediopassive", than English speakers certainly.
"It is the magnificent domain is on sale"--that's idiomatic English, though a bit stronger as "It's the magnificent domain's on sale."
Or better:
"It is this magnificent domain's on sale."
Sounds like something Jugurtha might have said, scratch the "magnificent".
Ripping off a laptop for himself, is he?
"...why, why--it's almost Hegelian!"
"Aye, Alfie, the cap'n snatched himself that prize with the hugger-mugger of a dative of possession."
