Determining if "le" is referring to the person or the thing in the sentence

Question

"Le" can refer to an "it" or to a person (him, her, you). I have a lot of confusion in understanding whether the "le" in many sentences is referring to the object (the "it") or to the person. I want to know how to figure that out so I understand it´s usage better. In the following sentences, who or what does "le" represent?

1. Él le roba la bicicleta a la niña. (context: a photo of a thief riding off with a little girl´s bike as she watches in distress..........Is "le" referring to the bicycle or to the girl?)

2. Alguien le está robando la billetera. (context: a wife is yelling this as a thief runs off with her husband´s wallet..........Is "le" referring to the wallet or to the husband?)

3. Le robaron su bicicleta. (context: a woman has just returned to the place she left her bicycle to find nothing but a cut lock.............Is "le" referring to the the woman or to the bicycle?)

Further background (if interested): I´ve been reading a lot of material on indirect object pronouns but none of it answers this question. The lessons state that "le" can mean "it" then later claim that a Spanish indirect object pronoun means "To whom" or "For whom". Well, in the case of "le", since it can mean "it", musn´t that be expanded to include "To what" and "For What" as well? That makes things confusing. For example, in the third sentence above, it seems to me that it is easy to interpret "le" as representing the object ("To it they stole her bicycle") or the person ("To her they stole her bicycle"). Neither one sounds "normal" in English, so how is a beginner in Spanish supposed to know which usage applies? I think getting an answer to this would really be a great help to me (and maybe some other confused beginner-level people).

Answer 1

Le is an indirect object pronoun and can mean to or for - him/her/it/you (usted). It may refer to 'it', 'him', 'him', 'her', 'you' etc receiving something, losing something, being affected by something etc.

When Indicating something being taken/received from someone 'le' can also mean 'from' - her/him/it/you

Eg: Le robaron mil dólares. They stole $1000 'from' her.

Bear in mind that many sentences that use indirect object pronouns can seem quite awkward in English if you try to translate them literally.

Le sacaron un riñon. Lit. They took out one kidney from her. (They removed one of her kidneys.)

A trick to know who or what the indirect object pronoun refers to is when there's a little phrase on the end starting with 'a' like the one on the end of your first sentence - this is your clarifier ... Él le roba la bicicleta a la niña.

In these kind of cases the 'a' + phrase (prepositional phrase) on the end states who/what the indirect object is. Very handy!

Just as a side point .... You can have the indirect object pronoun without the prepositional phrase but you can't have the prepositional phrase without the indirect object pronoun.

Él le (indirect object pronoun) roba la bicicleta a la niña. (prepositional phrase to clarify) - good

Él le (just the indirect object pronoun) roba la bicicleta. - also good

Él roba la bicicleta a la niña. (just the prepositional phrase to clarify) - nope, no good

But if there is no prepositional phrase to help you the other way to figure it out is to find the direct object - the thing directly acted on by the verb.

Alguien le está robando la billetera.

What's the verb? robar = to rob, to steal from

What is being stolen? the wallet / la billetera

So then who is being stolen from? This will be the indirect object, indirectly receiving the action of the verb. The wife is talking to the husband so 'you' (the husband) is the indirect object that 'le' refers to.

The sentence could just as easily say .... Alguien le está robando la billetera a usted, but they didn't make it that easy for you.

And given what we talked about with Q1 (the side point) can you work out No 3?

Thanks Kiwi, that helped me a lot. - 0083f5dc, Jun 10, 2013

that's good, glad to help :) - Kiwi-Girl, Jun 10, 2013

Thank you. - Trieltor, Jun 10, 2013

de nada el placer es mío :) - Kiwi-Girl, Jun 11, 2013

Wow! ... now explain ... "lo que" - readytodictate, Jun 11, 2013

Answer 2

Good question, and good job providing adequate context.

Kiwi´s answer is of course excellent. The real issue here doesn´t seem to be Spanish, as much as being aware of what an indirect object is, conceptually, in general. If you know that, then you know what the le refers to. Even in sentences without the hand ´a plus person´ it´s not too bad (though it does take a while to get straight in your head -- don´t worry, it will come to you gradually)

The indirect object is the person or thing being taken from or given to (or whatever similar verb) but not the thing being given or taken, which would be the direct object.

In your second sentence

Alguien le está robando la billetera

The le has to be referring to the victim, as the ticket couldn´t be robbed from.

Similarly, in your 3rd sentence

Le robaron su bicicleta.

You have an unnamed-implied subject, but again, like in 2, the bicycle can´t be robbed from, so the le again has to refer to the victim.

As Kiwi said, thinking of them too directly in English can make it hard, but hang in there and it will all click, or at least glide into place over time.

Is the indirect object the same as an object of a preposition? - 0083f5dc, Jun 10, 2013

It´s all very confusing. I think expanding my idea for what "le" can mean from just, for example, "him / to him/ fromhim" to include things like "from him / off him" etc.... will help me. But, that is also confusing because it´s (continued) - Trieltor, Jun 10, 2013

(continued) sort of random and they all wind up as prepositional phrases (at least in my head). Even the little helper prepositonal phrases at the end like "a la niña" confuse me...."He stole the bike to/at/into/by the girl"???? What does that mean? - Trieltor, Jun 10, 2013

I think you´ll find it helpful to just forget English´s idea of prepositional phrases. In them, the first thing we learn to do is to cut them all out, before deciding what is the Subject, D.O. and sometimes I.O. That won´t cut it in Spanish ... - rogspax, Jun 13, 2013

Answer 3

Unfortunately, "it" is also a 3rd person singular pronoun and "it" doesn´t have to be a person. I could be wrong here? - Trieltor

Even though le is sometimes used for it, this usage is incorrect. In cases of it, lo and la must be used. Note #2 from RAE:

leísmo.

1. m. Gram. Empleo de la forma le y, con menos frecuencia les, de él en el acusativo masculino singular o plural cuando el pronombre representa a personas.

2. m. Gram. Incorrección consistente en emplear la forma le o les para el acusativo masculino singular o plural cuando el pronombre no se refiere a personas, o para el acusativo femenino singular o plural.

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Pasting passages from the RAE to a beginner level Spanish learner seems more for your own enjoyment than to help me. If you´re saying here that SpanishDict and all these other sources are wrong for translating "le" as "(to) it" then (continued) - Trieltor, Jun 11, 2013

(continued) that´s a shame if it´s true and I hope people with your knowledge are able to get more accurate information to these learning websites. - Trieltor, Jun 11, 2013

No need to get nasty; a simple request for translation is sufficient: Basically, "le/les" is a form consistantly used incorrectly for male/female pronouns that do not refer to people. (Even though "it" is a 3rd person word, it is not a person) - 005faa61, Jun 12, 2013

Answer 4

In all three, le refers to the person affected by the action - the indirect object.

From the RAE dictionary:

le.

(Del lat. illi, dat. de ille).

1. pron. person. Forma de dativo de 3.ª persona singular en masculino y femenino. Le dije. U. t. c. acus. del mismo pron. en sing. y m. No admite preposición, y en ambos usos se puede emplear como enclítico. Dale el libro. Síguele.

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Julian, I think (best I could translate) that what you pasted there only says that "le" refers to third person singular pronouns. Unfortunately, "it" is also a 3rd person singular pronoun and "it" doesn´t have to be a person. I could be wrong here? - Trieltor, Jun 10, 2013

Answer 5

After reading Julian's answer, I am confused again. There is a video that might help you on this site. If you want to watch it you can go to Learn. Then Spanish 2, lesson 3.