Imperfect Subjunctive: correct?

Question

Is this a correctly articulated sentence in Spanish:

Tuve que grabar la pronunciación para que supieran cómo decir la palabra y la practicaran correctamente.

I had to record the pronunciation so that they would know how to say the word and be able to practice it correctly.

Answer 1

I think that perhaps the conditional may be better - "sabrian". Noetol

Tuve que grabar su forma de hablar para que ellos sabrían - Annie

I'm afraid I'd have to disagree guys, because the adverbial conjunction para que always indicates something anticipatory it always (a dangerous word that 'always', I know, but let's live dangerously and use it jeje) , so it always takes the subjunctive. Just like these other adverbial conjuctions .... antes de que (before), a fin de que (so that), sin que (without), a menos que (unless), and con tal de que (provided that).

@ Jubilado - Good question, I certainly haven't yet mastered the subjunctive but yes for the tener/saber part, generally when the governing verb is in a past tense the imperfect subjunctive is the one you need (there are of course exceptions)

this would be my attempt at translation .... but bear in mind that I'm still learning too

Tuve que grabar la pronunciación para que ellos supieran cómo decir la palabra y puedan practicarla correctamente.

PS I know I've used the present tense subj of poder at the end and I'm not sure why lol but maybe to express that from now on they'll be able to use it correctly? Hmm I'll be interested to see what other answers you get.

Edit - actually we could avoid the issue of what tense to use in the last verb by putting it this way ... and yes you're right Annie, pronunciar would be better than decir - between us we might get there in the end jeje

Tuve que grabar la pronunciacion, para que ellos supieran como pronunciar la palabra y practicarla correctamente.

thanks, Kiwi, good explanation! I think pronunciar is better than decir,however. - annierats, Jun 10, 2013

quite right, between us we might actually be able to figure it out jeje - Kiwi-Girl, Jun 10, 2013

Okay, I'm back. First thanks. Since it takes place in the past I used the past subjunctive (for the reason you said). I used decir in order to avoid using pronunciar twice. - Jubilado, Jun 10, 2013

That being said, I like your examples and they may be better to the ears of a native speaker (¡Ojalá que uno responda!) - Jubilado, Jun 10, 2013

hey J I've just checked your sentence with a native speaker and they like my first one actually or finishing up with - puedan practicarla correctamente" or "para que la practiquen correctamente' - Kiwi-Girl, Jun 10, 2013

I will, I think, never understand the subjunctive. One more little piece of the puzzle! - Noetol, Jun 10, 2013

I'm marking this as best answer because my Bolivian friend said it was the best sounding to her. - Jubilado, Jun 11, 2013

Answer 2

Ok - after checking with a kind native speaker who often patiently answers all my endless questions this was his choice ....

Tuve que grabar la pronunciación para que ellos supieran cómo decir la palabra y puedan practicarla correctamente .... or para que la practiquen correctamente

Another native speaker, ex-school teacher offered this suggestion

Tuve que grabar la pronunciación para que supieran cómo decir la palabra y pudieran ser capaces de practicarla correctamente.

So there's probably a few options but these two definitely work (with no conditional in sight jeje)

yes well done :) - Kiwi-Girl, Jun 10, 2013

Another vote! This is the best answer so far. I especially like the second one because it means my first attempt was not too far off. - Jubilado, Jun 10, 2013

Answer 3

My question is does para que preclude the use of the conditional. The structure: They would...if they.... certainly the first would be in conditional. - Jubilado

Yes para que does preclude the use of the conditional it can only be followed by the subjunctive.

Something else to consider is that the conditional is tricky. Not all 'woulds' get translated with the conditional. You need to think am I really wanting the conditional 'would' or do I want to express 'being able to' if it's the second case you need to use a form of 'poder' and not the conditional.

:) - Kiwi-Girl, Jun 10, 2013

My words were a gentle affirmation (to Noetol) of what you already said that "para que" requires the subjunctive. Multiple conjugated moods of Spanish and compound modal constructions in English always complicate things! - Jubilado, Jun 10, 2013

Answer 4

Not being anyone's expert on the subjunctive, I think that perhaps the conditional may be better - "sabrian".

So do I. - annierats, Jun 10, 2013

No, after reading Kiwi's anser I have to disown my statement. Sorry,mate. - annierats, Jun 10, 2013

Typo, answer. I've had a bad day, I can't spell anymore. - annierats, Jun 10, 2013

My question is does para que preclude the use of the conditional. The structure: They would...if they.... certainly the first would be in conditional. - Jubilado, Jun 10, 2013

Answer 5

Ok, amigo, I'm sticking my neck out and giving it my best shot:

Tuve que grabar su forma de hablar para que ellos supiesen como pronunciar esta palabra y podrían practicar pronunciarla correctamente.

practicar la pronuncacion, might be neater, in fact. - annierats, Jun 10, 2013

folowing Kiwis superior grammatical advice, we change tosupesesn. Gracias, Kiwi! - annierats, Jun 10, 2013

Do not both pronunciar and poder follow from para que? That's the reason I put both in past subjuntive. - Jubilado, Jun 10, 2013

Answer 6

Pregunté a mi amiga boliviana, que es bibliotecaria, que pensó de mi oración y los que me dieron ustedes:

1. Tuve que grabar la pronunciación para que supieran cómo decir la palabra y la practicaran correctamente.

2. Tuve que grabar la pronunciacion, para que ellos supieran como pronunciar la palabra y practicarla correctamente.

3. Tuve que grabar su forma de hablar para que ellos supiesen como pronunciar esta palabra y podrían practicar pronunciarla correctamente.

4. Tuve que grabar la pronunciación para que ellos supieran cómo decir la palabra y puedan practicarla correctamente .... or para que la practiquen correctamente.

5. Tuve que grabar la pronunciación para que supieran cómo decir la palabra y pudieran ser capaces de practicarla correctamente.

Ella dijo que prefiera número 2 pero todos son correctos y buen español. Número 3 no le parece bien dicho, pero no es incorrecto. Gracias a todos para su paticipación.

Answer 7

Thanks for all the answers so far. In my comments I added my thoughts on the sentence which I constructed to describe events that occurred in the past - both the "had to" tuve que and the "would know" supieran and "would practice" practicaran are meant to have taken place already. In English the time is more vague without using the ponderous "so that they might have..."

I do hope a native speaker answers. If I don't hear anything today, I will ask my Bolivian friend what she suggests and share that (about 25 hours from this posting).

My purpose was to stimulate some thought on this matter, and thanks again to all of you who have participated so far!