Subjunctive after Creer

Question

So, my understanding of Creer que, is that, when it's positive, 'Creo que...', you use the indicative afterwards. If it's negative, 'No creo que...', you use the subjunctive tense.

But today, I was talking with a friend who has lived in Spain her whole life, and of course speaks the language fluently. We were talking about immigration in the United States and the Amnesty program in that happened in the 80's (I believe). I said,

"Por eso, había un programa de amnistía, (creo que el único que hemos tenido)..."

But my friend corrected me to:

"...el único que hayamos tenido..."

Can anyone explain to me why this is the case?

Hi, welcome to the forum! - rac1, Jan 29, 2013

Answer 1

Hello Schawncer,

I won't argue in this post the choice of "hemos/hayamos", I wouldn't have made that correction myself, but "hayamos" doesn't sound alien to me. The only thing I would like to point out is that there is no relation between the "creo que" and the use of hemos/hayamos tenido.

creo que el único que hayamos tenido...

If you think about it, you will realise that what is written above is not a complete sentence.

An equivalent would be:

creo que [el rojo] ????

Doesn't it lack the verb?

Creo que [es [el único [que hayamos tenido]]]

This is what I actually read in what you've written. I read a sentence.... and a sentence in indicative. Note that I'm not saying that your sentence is bad because it lacks a verb, omitting obvious verbs is something that we do all the time, especially in speaking. All I'm saying is: this is not the kind of "sentence" that you will find explained in a grammar book, and it's not the kind of sentence you can directly apply the grammar you've learned to, basically because it's not even a sentence, it only makes sense in a particular context: ¿No me he dejado un bolígrafo por aquí? Creo que el rojo...)

So, in a nutshell, indicative does follow "creo que", that is a very solid rule. There is a verb in indicative omitted in your phrase (your Spanis is good, by the way!) If this rule was failing, your friend's correction would have been:

Creo que sea el único que ...

which is a no-no

that makes sense - didn't see it when I posted - Ansionnach, Jan 29, 2013

Answer 2

creo que es el unico que hayamos tenido

Answer 3

Hi folks,

I agree it should be the indicative too. I have only just started to study the sunjunctive, so go with me on this.... In English, creo que suggests doubt to me. So I am starting to translate the creo que... pienso que....etc... as ... It's a fact from my point of view and I believe/think...

It helps me at the moment! It may help others to try and think of another way of saying the same thing in English before translating to Spanish.

Just my 2 cents worth!

Answer 4

..interesting - no answer though but I agree with paramedichk that the creo que is indicating some doubt but on the other hand the SD lessons on the subjuctive are clear that it should be indicative! btw could you have substituted habido for tenido or is that just ?

Answer 5

I would agree with your understanding (usually the indicative is used with positive declarations when it comes to verbs of perception such as creer, but the subjunctive normally follows such verbs in their negative form).

I wonder if perhaps there has been a misunderstanding. Any chance you could have misheard 'hayamos'? One possibility is that your friend could have said 'habíamos tenido' to make the second part of your sentence agree with the first 'había un programa'.

Just a guess but thought I'd put it out there.

Answer 6

I am far from being an expert but I think "Creo que" (I believe) still indicates a degree of uncertainty. If you are 100% certain, you would leave out that part all together and just say something like "Sé que estuvo el único que hemos tenido" or simply "el único que hemos tenido". Right?

Answer 7

I'm not sure but would love to see the answer myself!

ditto. - rogspax, Jan 29, 2013

ditto - gsdfsggs, Jan 29, 2013