por y para expresiones

Question

I've been going over the por/para phrases on this site

Like: por completo, por fin, para siempre, para variar...

How do I know when to use por in the expression and when to use para? I was told that por has to do with a length of time... so why do you say "para siempre" instead of "por siempre" also how do I know when to use finalmente rather than por fin?

THANK YOU!

Answer 1

Rogspax said: We all struggle with this.

So very true. Many native speakers have the same issue as us non-native speakers when it comes to por and para. The rules are so complicated. Para has a smaller set of rules so I try to use them and if something doesn't fit the para rules I use por. It doesn't always work but then nothing works all the time.

Answer 2

There are really two things at play here.

1) You just have to go over the rule, which there are good lessons for here on the sight, both in the video and in the grammar sections

2) One has to realize that some of them are just fixed little idioms, like ´para siempre´ even though it seems to break the rule where one uses Por for duration. It is analogous to irregular verbs. i.e. There are many verbs that follow rules, and then others that simply have to be memorized.

Keep going over those lessons and it will come over time. We all struggle with this.

Buena suerte.

Answer 3

As the others have said when it comes to set expressions they really just need to be learnt as a whole. When it comes to just 'por' or 'para' being used in their own right you may find this lesson with examples and exercises helpful. Also here are some flash cards to help you practise. Here's a podcast if you like to learn by listening.

Please include this lady in all future illustrations. Thank you. :) - rogspax, Dec 18, 2012

Oh, the content was good too. - rogspax, Dec 18, 2012

jaja :) - Kiwi-Girl, Dec 18, 2012

Answer 4

Intuitively, para is somewhat looking towards the future, or something not fully completed yet. For instance Trabajo para xyz empresa. I work for xyz company; while por has the feeling of looking backwards or looking at something fixed and concrete. Este regalo es por mi madre. However, just like English prepositions, there are no clean cut rules for por and para, the best way is to observe how they are used in well written Spanish books and articles.

don't you mean - este regalo is 'para' mi mamá? Your looking forward explanation works well - which way are you looking when you hand someone a present? forward or backwards jeje - Kiwi-Girl, Dec 18, 2012

OK, I got a better example Gracias Kiwi *por* la correccion :-). - JazSpanish, Dec 18, 2012

good point kiwi, I'm conflicting with my own argument. - JazSpanish, Dec 19, 2012

Answer 5

I find a helpful way to look at it, in addition to memorizing, to look at

Para as being Goal oriented, and

Por as being Process oriented

If you look at each of the mnemonics on this site (or similar lists elsewhere) such as DREEM or PRODDS, you´ll see they fit into those two categories (Goal vs Process) in the majority of cases.

Obviously, distilling the immensity of Por and Para down into those two little words is an oversimplification-generalization, but it´s not a bad model to use until you have them all down individually.

And as Gringo says (which is very good)

The rules are so complicated. Para has a smaller set of rules so I try to use them and if something doesn't fit the para rules I use por

Para is a little simpler, and, there are a lot less fixed para-expressions than por-expressions. As such, if it doesn´t feel like para, then your odds of por being right are pretty good.

Besides the grammar on this site, there are tons of flashcard lists too. Great practice.