Reflexive verb use

Question

Hi there- can someone please explain to me why in the second example given for word of the day 'repetir' that a reflexive pronoun is used? How does one know when the verb needs to be reflexive? Example below:

(verb) to repeat

1.1: Repítelo de nuevo, que no te escuché la primera vez.

2.2: Ahora que estoy saliendo con Juan Carlos, no quiero que se repita la misma historia que con Luis.

Please look at my post and comments. Hope it clears something up. - IndianSpanish, Dec 18, 2012

Answer 1

I'm also quite new to Spanish, so I can be wrong. However, in the spirit of learning....

Although Julian who is fluent in Spanish has endorsed Rog's answer, I still think there are two ways to interpret "se repita" here. Let's rearrange the sentence a little bit:

No quiero que se repita la misma historia que con Luis. =>No quiero que la misma historia que con Luis se repita

In short: No quiero que la historia se repita. La historia is the subject of the clause following "que."

1. I don't want the story to repeat itself. => reflexive repitirse
2. I don't want the story to be repeated. => passive

I hope someone more experienced with Spanish can check this out and correct me if I'm wrong.

Good spirit. And I too wondered if that weren´t a 3rd option, but since I didn´t know, I decided not to offer more. - rogspax, Dec 17, 2012

Now I´m curious. - rogspax, Dec 17, 2012

Me too! Now I'm confused, especially looking at the post after this... anyone know the authentic answer?? - amoelfutbol, Dec 18, 2012

Don´t be. You seemed to have it earlier. Don´t confuse yourself by trying to understand every possible interpretation, especially the less likely reflexive one. Hang in there. - rogspax, Dec 18, 2012

I believe that PeterRS asked a similar question. Look below... - IndianSpanish, Dec 18, 2012

This answer is Brilliant! - cogumela, Dec 18, 2012

(although 3, looking at the whole sentence in context, is not the right interpretation) - cogumela, Dec 18, 2012

3. I don't want they repeat the story ---> impersonal. - cogumela, Dec 18, 2012

It's clear that 3 is not the right interpretation if we look at the sentence in context. - cogumela, Dec 18, 2012

Hola Cogu, Thank you for coming to the rescue. I have one thing to clarify: do you mean "2" instead of "3"? I only think there are two ways to interpret it. I don't think it is impersonal se. - JazSpanish, Dec 18, 2012

My comments got all mixed up for some reason. I must admit they don't make any sense in this order. - cogumela, Dec 19, 2012

I meant to say: your 2 interpretations are perfectly possible, and it's not possible to decide if the correct one is 1 or 2. - cogumela, Dec 19, 2012

Apart from those, grammatically there could also be 3. impersonal, but this one doesn' t make sense. - cogumela, Dec 19, 2012

Gracias, now I understand. This voting/ordering feature is quite confusing sometimes. - JazSpanish, Dec 19, 2012

Answer 2

Jasmine- without the 'que,' I dont think your sentence can work; however, something like 'no quiero repetir la historia' could work, because you leave a verb in its infinitive form when preceded by a conjugated verb.

I am still trying to figure out the answer to my original post;(. Is repetir being used reflexively in the sentence or in a passive context ? The answer from Cae was somewhat helpful, but if I was the one writing that sentence, I'm just not sure I would have thought to use 'se' in it so I'm just trying to get the logic down so it becomes second nature to me..

Sorry to digress from your question. I personally think it is reflexive. Although grammatically, it can also be a passive se. However, Cogu thinks it can not be passive, so that left us with only reflexive. - JazSpanish, Dec 18, 2012

Answer 3

That makes sense!! I'm going to go with that too! Its so hard to tell sometimes and it can be really confusing as a student trying to learn when to use reflexive... I really appreciate your help!!!

Glad to. I´m only, at most, a tiny half-step ahead of you, and trying to figure this all out myself. Same boat. - rogspax, Dec 17, 2012

Answer 4

That might not be reflexive, but rather the impersonal se ?

No quiero que se repita la misma historia.

I don´t want that the same story be repeated. Or, in more common daily English. I don´t want that the same story is repeated.

I hope that helps, or that I¨m promptly corrected.

You´re right. Impersonal "se" makes the clause passive voice. - 005faa61, Dec 17, 2012

Answer 5

No quiero que la historia repetirse isn't gramatically correct.

You are right cae, I made a mistake by keeping the que in the above sentence.

What about No quiero la historia repetirse. Would this be correct?

You need to conjugate the verb (and subjuntive.... ) :) - cogumela, Dec 18, 2012

Gracias. - JazSpanish, Dec 18, 2012

As Cogumela already said, you need to conjugate the second verb, using as "la historia" subject or you may change the subject and say "No quiero repetir la misma historia". - -cae-, Dec 18, 2012

Gracias. - JazSpanish, Dec 19, 2012

Answer 6

As a beginner struggling with reflexive verb use also, may I ask why it isn't "No quiero que la misma historia que con Luis repitirse"? - PeterRS

I think if the sentence is simpler, for instance, No quiero que la historia repitirse, it would be OK, because it is very obvious repitirse is the action of la historia. However, since there are lots of "stuff" modifying "la historia" here, to avoid confusion, you use a "que clause" to specify the action of "la historia," also subjunctive is needed here, therefore, "se repita."

You only put the reflexive pronoun at to the end of an infinitive or an gerund (-ing) when it is followed by a conjugated word. In this case, repitirse is not followed by a conjugated word. So, it wouldn't be ok. - IndianSpanish, Dec 18, 2012

For example: I am going to shower. Voy a ducharme. - IndianSpanish, Dec 18, 2012

repitir is the infinitive form, so repitirse should be fine, right? - JazSpanish, Dec 18, 2012

No, repitirse would not be right, as there has to be a conjugated verb in the 2nd clause, and repitir is the only verb in that second clause, therefore, it can´t be in infinitive form. - rogspax, Dec 18, 2012

Rospax is correct - cogumela, Dec 19, 2012

Answer 7

According to RAE's definition for "repetir", this verb is strongly pronominal (only pronominal) when it means "happen again", which is this case. Only things can 'ocurrir otra vez, suceder de nuevo, repetirse', like an story or an event.

If we replace "la historia" by "Eso" (a kind of "it" in Spanish), the it would be "Eso se repite", which is obviously reflexive, and after all in our daily communication we just speak and don't really worry if an expression is passive or reflexive case, which is good because many times it is hard to differenciate one from the other.

By the way, the sentence No quiero que la historia repetirse isn't gramatically correct. However you can say "No quiero que la historia se repita".

Now, retaking the original question of Amoelfutbol, probably "my" method would be complicated, but actually it is necessary to know if a verb is pronominal or not and transitive or not, and to know how that changes the meaning. There are verbs that have completely different meanings in the cases where they are used in a pronominal form, like "acordar" and "acordarse".

Answer 8

I got an answer from the admin team of Spanish Dict -- it IS being used in the passive! Yes finally and answer haha!

Answer 9

-Reflexives verbs are those in which the action fall back on the subject. Also, reflexive verbs are recognized in Spanish because they have SE attached to the end of it's infinitive. - In Spanish, verbs can act as reflexive and as non-reflexives. § I wash my hair. --> Reflexive § I wash my dog. --> Non-reflexive Reflexive verbs REQUIRE the use of reflexive pronouns.

So.... No quiero que se repita la misma historia que con Luis should become: No quiero que la misma historia que con Luis se repita

As a beginner struggling with reflexive verb use also, may I ask why it isn't "No quiero que la misma historia que con Luis repitirse"? - PeterRS, Dec 18, 2012

Good question! You only put the reflexive pronoun at to the end of an infinitive or an gerund (-ing) when it is followed by a conjugated word. In this case, repitirse is not followed by a conjugated word. - IndianSpanish, Dec 18, 2012

For example: I am showering. Estoy duchándome. - IndianSpanish, Dec 18, 2012