is le necessary when the indirect object is given?

Question

I have a question regarding which I believe to be an indirect object pronoun.

I have the following sentence:

"El maestro le da un libro al alumno."

I believe this means:

"The teacher gives the book to the student."

However, I don't understand why le is needed. Couldn't you just say:

"El maestro da un libro al alumno."

If the le is there it seems like the "al alumno" shouldn't be.

So I could see this:

"El maestro le da un libro."

If someone could explain this it would be appreciated. Thank you.

sorry if my formatting is bad. When I was typing it the format looked different and it changed it on me when I submitted. I probably don't understand how this works very well. - hershey964, Dec 5, 2012

Good question! I think both are correct, but I don't know why. We'll find out together. - Jubilado, Dec 5, 2012

Hello, Hershey, your formatting is fine. - rac1, Dec 5, 2012

Great question hershey964. I don't understand either. - 0095ca4c, Dec 5, 2012

Answer 1

The indirect object pronoun is almost always needed in the sentence, even when there is an indirect object noun.

So, "El maestro da un libro al alumno." is incorrect.

However, you can have the indirect object pronoun without the indirect object noun.

"El maestro le da un libro." is correct.

You would think that the two together are redundant, but "al alumno" is not a redundancy, but is in fact a clarifier.

This is because, without context, "le" could mean "to you", "to him", "to her"...

El maestro tiene que darle una meta con el libro. Le doy (a usted) muchas gracias por esto. - Jubilado, Dec 5, 2012

That makes sense, but is that to say we always need the IDO in the sentence. For instance, trabajo a la tienda. Is that wrong? Shouldn't it be: le trabajo a la tienda. - hershey964, Dec 5, 2012

Great answer Tosh! I'm leaning! - rac1, Dec 5, 2012

El maestro le da un libro al alumno, literally means, The teacher (to him) gives a book (to the student). - Tosh, Dec 5, 2012

The indirect object (le) tells us where the direct object (libro) is going (to the student). Your sentence with "trabajo" does not have a direct object. - Tosh, Dec 5, 2012

Do you mean, trabajo en la tienda. I work in the store. ? - Tosh, Dec 5, 2012

thank you! i did mean that. That makes a lot of sense. - hershey964, Dec 5, 2012

Answer 2

Tosh, I think you and I are both right. From the Ministerio de Educación, Cultura y Deporte de España:

"El uso del pronombre de objeto indirecto es obligatorio para la 3ª persona, a menos que el objeto indirecto sea nombre propio. Ejemplos: Le entregué la composición al profesor. Entregué la composición al Sr. Durán."

So if the indirect object is a proper name, the pronoun is not required, but otherwise it is.

So in hershey's example above, since "alumno" is not a proper name, the pronoun is required (so Tosh, you were more right than me!

Very interesting! I will change my post to say "almost always". :) - Tosh, Dec 5, 2012

Se explique bien; merece un voto por su trabajo sin dudo, sinmeta. - Jubilado, Dec 5, 2012

Answer 3

"El maestro le da un libro" means "the teacher gives him/her a book".

"El maestro le da un libro al alumno" and "El maestro da un libro al alumno" both mean "the teacher gives a book to the student". Either one is correct. Note that both indicate specifically a male student, as opposed to "El maestro le da un libro", which does not specify the gender of the recipient of the book.

When the indirect object is specifically named ("al alumno"), then the indirect object pronoun (le) is optional. That being said, the general tendency in both written and spoken Spanish is to include the indirect object pronoun, even if the indirect object is specifically named. It may be a little redundant, but that's the way it is.

This is not correct. - Tosh, Dec 5, 2012

I think most of it is correct (at least the first two paragraphs), but I'll grant you that when the indirect object is not a proper name, the indirect object pronoun is required (please see my more recent answer above). - sinmeta, Dec 5, 2012

Answer 4

There are certain verbs that require the use of the IDO even when the IDO is given as in your example> I am far from a grammar expert but I think of the verbs as those that naturally have an IDO such as hablar. Even if you are talking to yourself you are talking to someone so there is an IDO. Dar falls into this same category.

I am sure someone will come along with the grammar rule and a better explanation but the short answer is: yes, the IDO is needed.

It must be late. I thought to begin with that you were talking about a participle ...IDO until I realised that you actually meant an InDirect Object. - geofc, Dec 5, 2012

Answer 5

There's also a very good article here at SD that you might find useful:

If there is an indirect object in a sentence, there MUST be an indirect object pronoun!

Answer 6

The IDO pronoun is a direct link to the subject and therefore required except as mentioned by Sinmeta about a proper name, although it´s not incorrect to still use the IDO pronoun with a proper name and in most cases we do just from habit.

In this senario, if context previously gives us information about the maestro, the libro and the alumno, we just say " "Él se lo da." Pronouns are very helpful when we are feeling lazy.

Answer 7

A little more on this subject - here's a wee lesson on some cases where the Spanish indirect object pronoun is used where we might not expect it in English.