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When do adjectives follow the substantive?

When do adjectives follow the substantive?

3
votes

I just commented on a question where part of the question was "sweet dreams". One answerer translated this to "dulces sueños" and I instantly wanted to "correct" this to "sueños dulces". Why? Mostly I'm very confident about placing an adjective before or after the substantive but I don't use or know of any rules about positioning.

Please can y'all provide me with some kind of platform that I can use when I need to make this decision.

Y'all know that now I live in Texas, I'm also trying to learn Texan.

4403 views
updated May 21, 2017
posted by geofc
Yes I'm sure this has been asked before but you guys will find a reference in half the time it would take me. - geofc, Nov 28, 2012
probably good you didn't jeje, I think 'dulces' or 'lindos' sueños is the way that native speakers would say it ;) - Kiwi-Girl, Nov 29, 2012
ps substantivO/noun ;) - Kiwi-Girl, Nov 29, 2012
When I was at school dictionaries caled things "nouns" and so did I. Recently, however, in the past 45 years or so, they all seem to have changed to "substantives" a, fat, ungainly and windy word. - geofc, Nov 29, 2012
oh - my apologies I thought you were referring to the Spanish word for noun, well there you go, I must have been going to school at the same time as you jaja - Kiwi-Girl, Nov 29, 2012

4 Answers

4
votes

(a) Descriptive adjectives are generally placed after the noun that they qualify:

"Prefiero la camisa azul" (not the red or white one)

"La tarántula es una creatura peligrosa" (other creatures may not be)

"Voy a cambiar los neumáticos gastados" (only the worn tyres will be changed)

"Voy a cambiar los gastados neumáticos" (non-differentiating - all tyres will be changed)

(b) Adjectives may surround the noun, with the less important adjective first:

"Este sitio es un típico restaurante turístico"

(c) Adjectives of quantity go first:

""Tengo un medio litro de gasolina"

(d) Adjectives before the noun may convey an emotional content or a subjective judgement:

"He visto un trágico accidente"

(e)Adjectives of number or sequence go first:

"El tercer mundo"

(f) Adjectives that describe an inherent quality go first:

"La blanca nieve" or "Los altos picos"

If you were to write "la nieve blanca" you would be seeking to differentiate white snow from snow of a different colour! Also peaks are inherently high and may not be differentiated from other peaks with the adjective "high"

updated May 21, 2017
posted by padrin
Muy bien. - francobollo, Nov 29, 2012
Gracias - padrin, Nov 29, 2012
6
votes

Often it seems that adjectives before a noun carry some kind of emotional meaning so one tip is: adjectives 'after' - for non-disputable facts or descriptions; but adjectives 'before' to express how you feel about something or sometimes even how you're affected by it - eg viejo amigo vs amigo viejo.

Perhaps for this reason if you do hear it, I think it's more common to say (que tengas) 'dulces sueños' o 'lindos sueños' with the adjective first wink Although I do wonder if 'que sueñes con los angelitos' would be more a more 'native expression' (for want of a better term)?

Re adjective placement, his is a good article on the subject, I remember finding it quite helpful:

Adjectives of appreciation: By placing an adjective before the noun, you can sometimes indicate a certain amount of appreciation for that quality and/or a certain amount of emphasis. In English we sometimes do the same thing by using a word such as "really" or by a change in intonation.

Examples: Es un músico bueno, he's a good musician; es un buen músico, he's a really good musician; la hermosa vista, the beautiful view; Hollywood, la ciudad de incontables películas, Hollywood, the city of countless movies.

Reinforcing adjectives: Adjectives that reinforce the meaning of the noun, such as adjectives that "go with" the accompanying noun, often are placed before the noun. In many cases, one might also say that the purpose of these adjectives is less for describing the noun that's modified and more for conveying some sort of an emotion to it.

Examples: Una oscura noche, a dark night; el horrible monstruo, the horrible monster; la alta montaña, the high mountain; la blanca nieve, the white snow. Nondescriptive adjectives: Many adjectives other than those that describe go before the noun.

Examples: Pocos libros, few books; muchas palomas, many doves; mi casa, my house; esta mesa, this table; dos libros, two books. Sometimes these adjectives are known by other names, such as possessive pronouns and determiners.

Meaning-changing adjectives: Some adjectives change in meaning (or at least in English translation) depending on whether they're placed before or after the noun. Generally, the adjectives placed after nouns have an objective meaning or one that carries little or no emotional content, while one placed before the noun can indicate something about how the speaker feels toward the person or thing being described.

Example: Mi viejo amigo, my longtime friend; mi amigo viejo, my elderly friend. Generally, except for the meaning-changing adjectives, you won't go wrong by placing a descriptive adjective after the noun. However, as you examine Spanish writing or listen to the spoken language, you will develop a "feel" for those cases where you can or should place adjectives ahead of the noun.

updated May 21, 2017
edited by Kiwi-Girl
posted by Kiwi-Girl
Good answer, Kiwi! I liked the link. - Noetol, Nov 29, 2012
thanks guys :) - Kiwi-Girl, Nov 29, 2012
Good answer, Kiwi. - gringojrf, Nov 29, 2012
I'll have to read this at least once more. The only thing that I see now is that you're aiming at someone with not much more than a starter's feel for Spanish which is not where I am as I said in my question and you have left out euphony a vital element. - geofc, Nov 29, 2012
Basically this is a very good, even excellent, answer which deserves more than comment space to discuss. Is there a way of doing this, that is, discussing a point at greater length? - geofc, Nov 29, 2012
New research - A Bing search gets 98,800 for "una noche oscura" but only 9,240 for "una oscura noche". Is this even relevant? - geofc, Nov 29, 2012
you can always cut and paste any content and make a new thread with it if you'd like to see it discussed a bit more :) - Kiwi-Girl, Nov 29, 2012
1
vote

I don't have a rule for you, but I hear "dulces sueños" a lot here in Guatemala, along with "Que duermas con los angelitos."

updated Nov 30, 2012
posted by --Mariana--
Hi Mariana - I'm defeated on "dulces sueños where the Bing count (my version of the "higher criticism) is over 400,000 for "dulces sueños and only 3,000 for "sueños dulces". Hiho! - geofc, Nov 30, 2012
1
vote

The politically incorrect answer is that in this case it doesn't change the meaning of "sweet dreams". So when talking I would not worry about which one came out of my mouth "dulces sueños" or "sueños dulces". I say "sueños dulces".

updated Nov 29, 2012
edited by gringojrf
posted by gringojrf
A perfectly valid point however it's not a matter of "worrying" but of understanding. - geofc, Nov 29, 2012
Actually, it does. When you say sueños dulces it almost sounds like a dessert. - francobollo, Nov 29, 2012
But franco, if you say buenas noches, sueños dulces. I don't think anyone will misunderstand you. And just to harp on my favorite point, its better to speak and by understood with errors than not speak for fear of making errors. - gringojrf, Nov 29, 2012