Why is "el" in there?

Question

This was in EL MUNDO:

"Allí le espera el Dynamo, el mismo equipo con EL que se jugaron el título el año pasado y al que ganaron por 1-0"

and

"...pondrá fin de una manera inesperada a seis años de carrera en LA que se convirtió en la primera figura mediática...

In both cases it seems as if you could do without the article. Is this a peninsular thing?

This is a great question. I've been wondering this myself recently. - Lrtward, Nov 20, 2012

Answer 1

The relative pronouns el que / la que / los que / las que not only provide a degree of emphasis but also clarification. For example:

"Aquí está el jefe de la companía con el que trato" (deal with the boss)

"Aquí está el jefe de la companía con la que trato" (deal with the company)

The English version is made clear by the use of whom or which:

"This is the boss of the company with whom / which I deal"

Hope this helps

Well said! Bien dicho. - Jubilado, Nov 20, 2012

Padrin, Look at my post about Comerse. You seem to know grammar. - Jubilado, Nov 20, 2012

Thanks for the answer. This is a tricky one that I'm going to have to practice. - mstivers, Nov 29, 2012

Answer 2

Although we would translate this as "the same team with which they played for the title"

and "in which" in the second. It seems that Spanish likes to be more precise when using "que" to refer back to a specific noun and so uses the pronoun "el", "la" etc before "que". Think of it as "that which" in English or "the one which". You have perhaps run accross the phrase "lo que" which is a kind of neuter form that has no specified antecedent in the preceeding clause or phrase to which to refer.

Yes, I agree, it says ' which' and it's the way it's done in Spanish, all over, I think. - annierats, Nov 20, 2012

Answer 3

I provide this as additional information, as I would not consider myself an expert in this. I had always learned it as the most proper grammar to use the article with the relative pronoun after a preposition and that sometimes it can be dropped (all this when the antecedent is not a person; for people I learned to use quien or quienes- although the references I quote do not indicate that as an absolute rule either).

This reference is from Wikipedia:

enter link description here

El que

When the relative pronoun is the object of a preposition, the definite article is added to que, and this agrees for number and gender, giving us el que, la que, los que, las que and the neuter lo que. Note that in English there are two options: the preposition can go to the end of the sentence, or it can go right before the relative pronoun "which" or "whom".

• Ella es la persona a la que le di el dinero = "She is the person [that/whom] I gave the money to" / "She is the person to whom I gave the money"

• Es el camino por el que caminabais = "It is the path [that] you were all walking along" / "It is the path along which you were all walking"

In some people's style of speaking, this definite article may be omitted after a, con and de, particularly when the antecedent is abstract or neuter:

• La aspereza con [la] que la trataba = "The harshness with which he treated her" • No tengo nada en [lo] que creer = "I have not anything to believe in" / "I have nothing in which to believe"

After en, the article tends to be omitted if precise spatial location is not intended.

• Lo hiciste de la misma forma en que lo hizo él = "You did it [in] the same way [that/in which] he did it" (note also how "in" with the word forma is translated as de when used directly, but then changes to en when used with the relative pronoun)

• La casa en que vivo = "The house in which I live" (as opposed to the following

• La casa en la que estoy encerrado = "The house inside which I am trapped"

Here is another opinion:

enter link description here

Que may also be used after short separation from the antecedent, for example a comma or —if it is not a person— a short (one-syllable) preposition, for example a, de, or en . However, que is not used after such prepositions as sin, por, or para because those combinations would be confused with the adverbial conjunctions sin que [without], porque (because) and para que [so that].

¿Es ésta la escuela a que asististe? Is that the school (which) you attended?

Leí la novela de que hablabas. I read the novel you were talking about [about which you were talking].

No es el banco en que deposité mi dinero. It's not the bank I deposited my money in [in which I deposited my money].

El que and the other forms —la que, los que, las que— agree in gender (singular/plural) and number (masculine/feminine) with the antecedent. They are typically used when there is some distance between the relative pronoun and the antecedent, for example after a comma or a one-word preposition. This includes one syllable prepositions often used with que —particularly en— and especially those which que might cause confusion if used with que, for example sin, para, and por.

No es el banco en el que deposité mi dinero. It's not the bank I deposited my money in [in which I deposited my money].

Ésas son las razones por las que no puedo acompañarte. Those are the reasons why [because of which] I can't go with you.

Perdí los documentos sin los que no puedo matricularme. I lost the documents without which I can't register.

Answer 4

I'm not sure if I can tell you why, but this isn't a peninsular thing. Both of these seem perfectly natural to me. Here's hoping that a native can shed some light!