Reflexive Verbs as a substitute for the passive voice

Question

I see in a current question that one answer says, in relation to the differences between "comunicar" and "comunicarse", "the idea is communicated etc." but advises us not to use that mode.

In practice ideas and all sorts of things are communicated and noone seems the worse for it. It then struck me that, of course, "comunicarse" is commonly used as an alternative to the passive. What is the difference if any. Please can you grammarians give me some help.

Example "los rumores se comunícan por medios desconocidos" - "rumours are passed on by unidentified means".

PS This is not a comment on the music played by "Los Rumores" so don't accuse me of knocking them.

I still haven't seen an answer to your question geofc - I would like too though. - ian-hill, Nov 11, 2012

As you know Ian, us answerers are somewhat fixated on the act of translation rather than on the whys and wherefores. - geofc, Nov 12, 2012

Answer 1

Thanks gsdfsggs (how should I pronounce it?)

I don't want to suggest that a reflexive verb is always used as an alternative to the passive, only to have your reactions to the fact thatit often is. Is there a grammatical basis for this and, if so, what?

I am totally in agreement that "los rumores son comunicado(s?)" has exactly the same meaning as "los rumores se comunican" but what advice can I give when, inevitably, someone asks "how do I choose?".

Answer 2

Se construction is considered more natural and will save from the trouble have to choose between ser or estar en the passive construction.

I'm pretty sure estar is never used in passive construction. - gsdfsggs, Nov 11, 2012

no, when talking about something the result of it, It is hard I have yet to figure that. For example the door was closed If you implying someone then it would be ser but if you are commenting on the fact that it was left close it would be estar. - BellaMargarita, Nov 12, 2012

Can use give an example? La puerta fue cerrado vs la puerta estuvo cerrado? - gsdfsggs, Nov 12, 2012

Answer 3

"Los rumores son comunicado por medios desconocidos"

y

"Los rumores se comunícan por medios desconocidos"

Me parece igual.

Hay confusión cuando los objetos son personal. Por ejemplo: Confusion arises when the objects are personal subjects:

"Las personas se mandaron regalos." - they sent gifts to each other (OR, they were sent gifts???)

y

"Las personas fueron mandado regalos." - they were sent gifts.

But then again, thats just how I see, they might be wrong - gsdfsggs, Nov 11, 2012

In that sense you could probably use it, but like in English it would be better to use the active voice. - BellaMargarita, Nov 12, 2012

Answer 4

According to my grmmar book, there are a few common expressions that use "se":

Se cree que: it is believe... Se dice que: it is said (como se dice?) Se sabe que: it is known...

Apart from that, I don't really know. I myself don't usually use passive and I opt for se.

I guess a native speaker needs to clarify which is more often used (I suspect "se" is).

Tim

Answer 5

Good question, I'm not a native speaker obviously but I wonder if the first option is preferred because it avoids any hint of finger pointing?

Los rumores se comunícan por medios desconocidos.

Rumors get spread (lit. spread themselves) ....

vs

A definitive statement that 'Rumors are spread' ... 'son' - and because there's a verb describing an action and no person mentioned then perhaps that leaves the door open to the supposition that you know something about someone spreading rumours and perhaps you're talking about me?

I don't know, a stretch I'm sure jeje but worth a crack Nige'

Answer 6

A propósito, Veo la construcción pasivo mucho en las noticias.

I often see the passive construction in the news.

It is also used a lot in news, politics and legal stuff in English (that way they can "hide" the name of who is responsible - ian-hill, Nov 12, 2012

Sorry again Tim but you're failing, once moree, to agree. Should be "la construccion pasiva". - geofc, Nov 12, 2012

Muchas gracias! - gsdfsggs, Nov 12, 2012

Answer 7

This is just to "bump" this question to get a native speaker to respond with a concrete explanation. Spanish, afterall, is supposed to be so logical.

Ian mijito - no es asi. - geofc, Nov 12, 2012

Answer 8

Sé que estoy siendo una molestia, pero

¿hay un hispanohablante nativo que puede responder a esta pregunta para nosotros, por favor?

Answer 9

Still no native speaker willing to clarify for us non-natives ?