Pronominal Verbs and Direct/Indirect Objects

Question

Hello,

One of the things I have had trouble with in Spanish is when you use pronominal verbs (I think that's what the verbs with "se" at the end are called), especially since they seem to exist a lot more in Spanish than in English. However, what I really, truly do not understand is how a pronominal verb can be used with another object. This is a definition I found of pronominal verbs:

Pronominal verbs are often incorrectly referred to as reflexive verbs, when in fact the latter are just one type of pronominal verb. The defining characteristic of pronominal verbs is that their subjects are acting upon themselves. Pronominal verbs are much more common in Spanish than in English.

So, if a pronominal verb is acting on itself, can it have another object?

Here are some examples of what I mean:

-"se me olvidó" = "I forgot"

-"se me ve" = (I'm actually not really sure, I never understood how it translated...)

Can anyone explain this to me?

Answer 1

Perhaps this lesson on direct and indirect objects might help, it's a bit long I'm afraid and it's the posts at the bottom that refer to two object pronouns in one sentence plus olvidarse. But if you're a grammar freak you might like it lol (smiley)

Also this might be of interest to you 'The Spanish se'

Answer 2

"Se me ve" = "I am seen," "Someone sees me (but we don't know who this someone is or we a re purposely trying to hide who is doing the seeing)*

This might be considered a reasonable gramatical explanation, but this construction is not really used with the intention of someone being seen by a hidden someone else, although it could be.

It is normally used to indicate that something looks/appears on the person represented by the personal pronoun, ie: "La camisa se me ve bien" (the shirt looks good on me), "Se te ve bien el vestido" (the dress looks good on you), "¿Qué tal se me ve/queda el nuevo sombrero?" (How does the new hat look on me?), "¡Se te ven/quedan muy bien las medias!" (the stockings look really good on you!)

Very nice comment about "se me ve", Julian :) - viejito, Aug 12, 2012

Las medias te quedan bien. The socks fit you well. :) - viejito, Aug 12, 2012

Nice one JC - Kiwi-Girl, Aug 13, 2012

Answer 3

"Se me olvidó" is an example of the "no fault se." It is a type of passive se that acts to show that the preformer of the action is hidden, or we are not expressing who is doing the action. The indirect object pronoun goes to show who the action is affecting, but not who is doing the action.

"Se me olvidó.." = "I forgot" = "It was forgetting to me"

"Se me ve" = "I am seen," "Someone sees me (but we don't know who this someone is or we a re purposely trying to hide who is doing the seeing)*

very good Brady :) - viejito, Aug 12, 2012

I liked the explanation of "se me olvidó". It's sort of like saying.. I forgot it...but, it happened to me...and, I'm not at fault. :) - viejito, Aug 12, 2012

Answer 4

Aylino said;

Your problem is .......Sometimes the question WHY? could stop you from learning.

I disagree.

Maybe if you over analyse something (such as pronoun placement), but in general questioning "why" deepens the learning process and help understand the mechanics of a language.

I'm always thrilled when I hear someone speaking and say to myself, "I actually know why he said "tenga" instead of "tiene"...it's the subjunctive after the "hasta que" phrase!"

Answer 5

Your problem is that you want to know everything about hte pronominal verbs.If you want to understand how to use a pronominal verb, you have to use a bilingual dictionary. The grammar cannot teach you everything.If a verb is a reflexive verb in english, that doesn't mean that the verb has to be the pronominal verb in spanish too.Learn spanish with help of english!. I want to mean if the verb in english is a (in)transitive verb, and the verbal eqiuvalent in spanish is a pronominal verb, then use the pronominal verb !.Sometimes the question WHY? could stop you from learning.

Tu problema es que quieres todo sobres los verbos pronominales.Si quieres entender como se usa un verbo pronominal, tienes que usar un diccionario bilingüe.La gramática no te puede enseñar todo.Si el verbo en ingles es un verbo reflexivo, esto no semnifica que el verbo tiene que ser un verbo pronominal en castellano támbien.¡Aprende castellano con la ayuda del inglés¡.Quiero decir si el verb en inglés es un verbo (in)transitivo y el equivalente verbal en castellano es un verbo pronominal, entonces ¡ usa el verbo pronominal!. A veces la pregunta ¿ PORQUé? podría impedirte aprender.