To be "in heaven", uses estár ... but is it not permanent?

Question

I see that to say "they are in heaven", the verb estar is used instead of Ser. And I understand that you could argue it is a location -- I guess?Who really knows? But because it is more of a permanent condition, it would seem Ser should be used. But I just want to check if estar is correct - regardless of what seems to make sense here. So, Ellos están en el cielo.

is correct?

Answer 1

Yes, estar is correct there, as you say - because you're speaking about someone being in a location.

Just a word of warning, although even many text books will encourage you to think of estar as being for temporary things and ser for permanent things this really is not the best explanation.

For instance in Spanish you say 'está muerto' (he's dead / fairly permanente) but 'soy estudiante' (I'm a student) quite likely to change.

Perhaps this lesson will be useful Ser vs Estar

You make an excellent point with the comparison of muerte Y estudiente. Its best not to think in terms of temporary vs. permanent. Thanks for the link Hadn't seen that site before. There are so many sites for Spanish now! (But this one has the forum! ;)) - RachelC, Jun 28, 2012

Yes, the permanent vs temporary way of viewing things is easy and useful, and what I initially used to make an educated guess until I knew better (actually, still working on that, of course) but there are too many exceptions for it to hold up well. - rogspax, Jun 28, 2012

Whereas thinking of being dead, or in heaven, as a state or location, works just fine, as does thinking of being a student as an occupation. Kiwis rules are a bit more work to learn at first, but much more accurate. - rogspax, Jun 28, 2012

Retomaré esta explicación. Eres magnífica enseñando, Kiwi_Girl. :) Just a typo: "está muertO". - -cae-, Jun 28, 2012

Thanks guys, gracias caefuego, I had an extra t on think floating around too je je - good spotting :) - Kiwi-Girl, Jun 29, 2012

perfecto! - --Mariana--, Jun 29, 2012

Good answer, Kiwi. - annierats, Jun 29, 2012

Gracias amigas :) - Kiwi-Girl, Jun 29, 2012

Answer 2

Another example of how the "permanent vs. temporary" rule doesn't work--

Neuva York está en los Estados Unidos (location)

However, remember that events take place in a location, but we use "ser," e.g., La fiesta es en el parque.

Nice Mariana! :) Good explanation. ;) Have a great day!! - Jason7R, Jun 29, 2012

Good point :) - Kiwi-Girl, Jun 29, 2012

Answer 3

What Kiwi told you is correct. Whenenver you are confused by ser/estar, and let's use your phrase as an example, carefully analyse it and it could, most of the times, give you the answer:

Están en el cielo = They're in heaven, the bolded preposition makes it clear they're talking about location, and when you need to say where you are located, you used estar. If you used ser, then you'd be saying that they are heaven