"Es" or "Se" Confusion

Question

I often have to translate requirements and procedures on forms, and I still get confused when attempting to translate the passive voice these documents so frequently contain.

For example, if the phrase is, "A form of identification is required."

Would I say:

"Una forma de identificación es requerida."

OR

"Se requiere una forma de identificación."

I have two native Spanish-speakers (though not trained in the language formally) who disagree on this. One always uses "se requiere" and one always uses "es requerida."

If they're both technically right, which one sounds best? To me, the former sounds better.

Answer 1

Those are both gramatically correct, but the second one sounds much more natural.

I should clarify that I would prefer the more formal or technically correct of the two. I've found that sometimes conventional or colloquial Spanish differs from proper or formal Spanish (as it does in English sometimes). These are legal documents. - ohblanca, May 23, 2012

Don't give it much thought, a phrase like that would't seem to be slang-y or colloquial in an official government document - diagonx, May 23, 2012

I mean it sounds just as right, but more natural - diagonx, May 23, 2012

I agree Diagnox, since the English is in passive voice, might as well put the Spanish in passive voice as well. You are right in which one sounds best. - Esteban3304, May 23, 2012

Answer 2

OPINIÓN DE OTRO NATIVO ESPAÑOL

A ver:

"Una forma de identificación es requerida."

OR

"Se requiere una forma de identificación."

Ambas expresiones NO son correctas. Both expressions are incorrect

a) "Una forma de identificación es requerida." Es una forma muy ambigua. The Spanish passive form isn't correct in this case.

b) "Se requiere una forma de identificación." This sentence isn't complete.

Typical CAUSA + CONSECUENCIA sentence.

To my mind: Se requiere una forma de identificación + CONSECUENCIA + EXPLANATION ABOUT THIS FORM TO BE IDENTIFIED Example: Se requiere una forma de identificación para entrar en la web + que sea segura

Si no te identificas (CAUSA), no entras (CONSECUENCIA).

Has de escribir una explicación ya que "una forma" queda muy general y la frase queda muy extraña si no explicas cómo es la forma inconcreta ("una") de la identificación.

I think "Se requiere..." is a Sp. passive voice sentence that provides complete meaning and does not require additional phrases. My dictionary agrees with me. - Esteban3304, May 23, 2012

Your dictionnary and you are wrong. Falta una consecuencia. Si te preguntas ¿para qué hace falta una forma de identificación?. A la frase le hace falta información. - josemaloru, May 23, 2012

So, you believe it is impossible to translate this phrase (by itself) into Spanish? - Esteban3304, May 23, 2012

The sentence is incomplete. Maybe for begginers is OK, but you can't say that. It's an incomplete message. Grammatically is correct. It seems a notice hanged on a wall. - josemaloru, May 24, 2012

Answer 3

Thank you very much for the explanation!

1. While I agree the two Spanish phrases were vague, they do have an obvious context that a reasonable person could deduce by the title and text of the form.

2. I´m fairly sure using the imperonsal "se" with third person wording (or whatever that's called) does not make a sentence incorrect or incomplete, only vague - which in this case, is purposeful.

3. So far those posting have suggested switching from passive to active voice, but I am translating legal language (which tends to be in the passive voice and avoids the use of pronouns). The language is sometimes awkward both in English and in Spanish, but my job is translate, not necessarily correct, the documents.

I need the lesser of two evils here.

Thanks for your thoughtful responses, though!

Answer 4

Necesitamos una forma de identificación.

Thanks oblanca, much easier to understand the question now. To me the 2nd alternative sounds better but I' m only a student. Let us wait and see what the natives say.