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Who vs Whom

Who vs Whom

10
votes

In another thread - A Question about Subjunctive a side discussion has arisen concerning the use of the word "whom".

Having been a part of that discussion I thought I would open a new thread. The only place I every use whom is in the phrase "To whom it May Concern". Other than that, If I have hear it spoken I guess I don't notice it because I cannot recall anyone I know ever using it. So I went looking for something about how common is its usage. This is what I have found so far.

Below is an extract from about.com on who vs. whom.

Let's face it, whom is a problem word. Nobody seems to be quite sure about its proper usage. As a matter of fact, some of the rules that have dictated its use in the past are now considered "old fashioned" and are commonly ignored.

The truth is, very few people use whom in speech when it's technically correct. Even scholars who know the rules don't always apply them. It just sounds too puffy sometimes.

And this who/whom. A short extract follows:

“Whom” has been dying an agonizing death for decades—you’ll notice there are no Whoms in Dr. Seuss’s Whoville. Many people never use the word in speech at all.

4734 views
updated Mar 7, 2012
edited by gringojrf
posted by gringojrf
Interesting subject gringojrf! - farallon7, Mar 5, 2012
Thanks. This is part of my ongoing crusade against the grammar purists in the world. Jajaja. - gringojrf, Mar 5, 2012
:p - --Mariana--, Mar 5, 2012
It just seems to come natural to me, but you're right, it does sound formal. - rac1, Mar 5, 2012

14 Answers

6
votes

This is a pretty obscure issue.

I think that when it's the subject of the verb it should be "who". "Who is coming with us?"

I think when it's the object of a preposition then "whom" can be used if you don't mind sounding a little formal. "For whom did you vote?"

I still use whom. To me it sounds better but I was drilled by nuns in the 1950s. That was either a crime or a blessing, have your pick!

updated Mar 6, 2012
posted by Pablo-Peligroso
This is absolutely, positively, 100% correct. :) - missy8888, Mar 6, 2012
4
votes

I hear it every day, but it's probably because I work at a college, and my office is in the building that houses both the English and Spanish Depts. I do agree that you hardly hear it in 'normal,' day-to-day conversation, and therefore, most people don't know exactly how to use it.

updated Mar 5, 2012
posted by FigueroaGaray33
Working in a college I would expect that you would hear it more than is normal. - gringojrf, Mar 5, 2012
Yep, totally. - FigueroaGaray33, Mar 5, 2012
3
votes

Where I live it is never used.

updated Mar 6, 2012
posted by Ranman
Maybe I should say, "In the world I live in, It is never used." - Ranman, Mar 5, 2012
Or, "In the world in which I live, it's never used." Lol!!! - FigueroaGaray33, Mar 5, 2012
Funny, I understood your first entry. It succeeded in communicating your thought. - gringojrf, Mar 5, 2012
but why would you say "in" twice in one clause? - missy8888, Mar 6, 2012
3
votes

Hmm, I found this link! I found it interesting and enlightening! Whom

updated Mar 5, 2012
posted by farallon7
Thank you Farallon - rac1, Mar 5, 2012
3
votes

Puffy schmuffy tongue laugh lol I like using "whom" : to whom, for whom, etc. It's fun (to me). I don't hear it every day, but I hear it often enough (and use it as often as possible, lol). To each their own. wink

updated Mar 5, 2012
posted by Goldie_Miel
3
votes

I still get confused by the proper use of "who" and "whom" but I use the rule about using the one being the object of the preposition to try to use the correct word.

Yo sí me confundo por el uso apropiado de 'who' y a 'whom' pero utilizo la regla sobre el uso de un objeto de la preposición para intentar a utiliza la palabra correcta.

updated Mar 5, 2012
posted by Xocoyote
3
votes

I always find it funny when people say, "To whom am I speaking?"

updated Mar 5, 2012
posted by FigueroaGaray33
It is a bit old fashioned but that is correct usage when it is the object of a preposition. It also saves you from dangling "to" at the end of the sentence like, "Who am I speaking to?" - Pablo-Peligroso, Mar 5, 2012
2
votes

I use "whom" all the time but I'm a trial lawyer and do a lot of formal writing.

It is becoming less common, like the prohibition on ending a sentence with a preposition. When I hear a colleague use proper English, I take note. They are likely to be well educated and well read and I am not likely to underestimate them in court or elsewhere.

There is nothing wrong with having taken the time to learn grammar in any language.

updated Mar 7, 2012
edited by ocbizlaw
posted by ocbizlaw
Lawyer...enough said. Just kidding. But except for lawyers, politicians and english professors it is not used much. - gringojrf, Mar 5, 2012
2
votes

But you want people to learn good, grammatically sound Spanish, don't you? - FigueroaGara

Exactly!

updated Mar 6, 2012
posted by --Mariana--
Absolutely. But grammar does not naturally come first. Speaking does. With detailed grammar rules to worry about it makes it hard for people to relax and talk, make mistakes and then pick up the grammar details as they grow in the language. - gringojrf, Mar 6, 2012
If you said: Here are the rules, learn them, recognized those that you can but don't worry about them until you are comfortable holding a verbal conversation in Spanish. I think people would do better with speaking.... - gringojrf, Mar 6, 2012
...its how children learn to speak with a 100% success rate. - gringojrf, Mar 6, 2012
2
votes

Where I teach ESL, we recommend using 'whom' immediately after a preposition, but not otherwise. To me--and us--"To who did you give the package?" sounds terrible; whereas "Who did you give the package to?" sounds fine. Using a preposition right before the pronoun confers a formality that 'who' violates. It's lexical code switching even without the awful 'to'-'who' rhyme. I always use 'whom' when appropriate, but it's painful to hear it used incorrectly, which happens most of the time in spoken English. I think that it was in "Thurber Carnival" that an indignant woman responded to a criticism with, "Just []whom do you think you are?!" The two most common constructions in which 'whom' is used incorrectly are as a subject or predicate nominative when trying to be very formal (like the "Thurber Carnival" example) and as the subject of a clausal complement, like "I don't know []whom it was." Of course, 'whom' is in the objective case, so it can function as the object of a verb as well as of a preposition. It's interesting that Spanish, with all its inflections, doesn't change 'quien' for different cases.

updated Mar 6, 2012
posted by jlupine
2
votes

I still use whom. It does sound a little formal but I don't consider it old-fashioned at all.

I find it ironic that native English speakers couldn't distinguish between ""who" and "whom" or "who's" and "whose" but people who learned English as a second language always strive to be grammatically correct.

updated Mar 5, 2012
posted by cheskasullivan
My point exactly. Whatever your native language, very few prople speak it grammatically correctly. We inhibit learning a second language by over-emphasizing grammar. - gringojrf, Mar 5, 2012
But you want people to learn good, grammatically sound Spanish, don't you? - FigueroaGaray33, Mar 5, 2012
I don't think using "whom" is over-emphasizing grammar. I'll pick grammar nazi over horrible speller anytime. At least you learn. - cheskasullivan, Mar 5, 2012
And I'm one of those people who strive to be grammatically correct because English is not my mother tongue. :P - cheskasullivan, Mar 5, 2012
2
votes

This is part of my ongoing crusade against the grammar purists in the world. Jajaja. - gringojrf

O M G...you're talking about me! Jejeje

Like Ocbizlaw, I am a lawyer (and English major) and use it all the time.

updated Mar 5, 2012
posted by --Mariana--
Sorry, not just you. Everyone who puts grammar on a pedestal as the ultimate goal of learning. Kids learn to speak very well between 2 and 6 without an ounce of grammar. It has iits place but as a tool but it is not the holy grial. JMO - gringojrf, Mar 5, 2012
I don't think it's the Holy Grail either, but I still feel people should be well versed in it. If one wants to break the rules, one should now what the rules are. - FigueroaGaray33, Mar 5, 2012
FigueroaGara, this is a fun topic for me. If you gave everyone in America an English grammar test I think less than half would score a passing grade. I think its the same in any language. Yet the world continues to communicate jsut fine. .... - gringojrf, Mar 5, 2012
...friends chat, business gets done, etc. Yet we tell learners that it is important to follow all the rules when many native speakers have no idea what all the rules are. I think it inhibits the speaking part of language acquisition. JMO. - gringojrf, Mar 5, 2012
Hopefully, the ones who tell learners that it is important to follow the rules do know those rules themselves. I totally agree with (most of) your points, but I do believe that grammar should not be dismissed or disregarded. - FigueroaGaray33, Mar 5, 2012
If too much focus on grammar inhibited language acquisition, nobody would talk at all. Adult Spanish learners are more likely to feel intimidated by the Big Bad Grammar than kids, who are sponges anyway, and will absorb everything. - FigueroaGaray33, Mar 5, 2012
Grammar is the foundation of language. The more we know how it works, the more we can express ourselves effectively. I'm on this website to learn so I'll try to learn as much grammar as I can. ^^ - cheskasullivan, Mar 5, 2012
2
votes

Thanks for this post gringojrf. I have some doubts sometimes about using whom and who, but it seems that you guys as english native speakers don't use "whom" so much for informal conversations, right? But for formal writing it may be more used. I hope you can solve my doubts, thanks again smile

updated Mar 5, 2012
posted by Juliss
I will stick my neck out and say that in everyday conversation you will seldom hear "whom". It is a little more common in formal writing but again not much in informal writing. Just my opinion. - gringojrf, Mar 5, 2012
Unless you are becoming a translator or a government official I would not give one second of thought to who vs whom. Very few understand it and even they will not normally hold it against you if you misuse "who" Just my opinion. - gringojrf, Mar 5, 2012
I have it more clear now. Gracias! :) - Juliss, Mar 5, 2012
1
vote

When I first moved to Mexico I took an immersion class for one month, followed by five more months of daily classes of 2-3 hours. On top of that I did homework for 4-6 hours every day and more on weekends. I treated it like a job and put 50 - 60 hours a week into it. I still spoke poorly and got tongue-tied all the time.

On day out of pure frustration I said to myself, to h*ll with it. And I started talking, making errors in every sentence. Getting blank stares and getting laughed at. I laughed as well and asked what I did wrong. I quit worrying about grammar, instead I started communicating. I spoke Spanish 95% of the time for four years with all kinds of people, from university professors, doctors, architects, engineers, teachers and everyday laborers. I learn to hear my mistakes from listening to others and from being corrected. No shame, no fear.

Today my grammar is still far below that of many people on this site in both English and Spanish but I can and will speak Spanish with anyone anytime. I may not get 100% of it, and I still make errors but I can communicate in Spanish, grammar notwithstanding. Most people in everyday life do not care, I repeat do not care, if your grammar is correct. They may not even know just as I often don't know in English.

I know this is a learning site, much like being in school. But I say attend class (visit the site) then go out and talk just like you do/did with your friends outside of class. There are many questions about learning to talk and listen. It is an active task, you must do it to learn. Don't let fear of making mistakes and getting laughed at keep you from diving in. Forget the grammar, forget the lack of vocabulary, don't worry about the el/la articles for nouns. Dont; sweat the small stuff. It will come with practice. But you won't practice if you are afraid and trying to use perfect grammar adds to the fear.

Bastante. O quizás demasiado.

updated Mar 6, 2012
posted by gringojrf