Who vs Whom
In another thread - A Question about Subjunctive a side discussion has arisen concerning the use of the word "whom".
Having been a part of that discussion I thought I would open a new thread. The only place I every use whom is in the phrase "To whom it May Concern". Other than that, If I have hear it spoken I guess I don't notice it because I cannot recall anyone I know ever using it. So I went looking for something about how common is its usage. This is what I have found so far.
Below is an extract from about.com on who vs. whom.
Let's face it, whom is a problem word. Nobody seems to be quite sure about its proper usage. As a matter of fact, some of the rules that have dictated its use in the past are now considered "old fashioned" and are commonly ignored.
The truth is, very few people use whom in speech when it's technically correct. Even scholars who know the rules don't always apply them. It just sounds too puffy sometimes.
And this who/whom. A short extract follows:
Whom has been dying an agonizing death for decadesyoull notice there are no Whoms in Dr. Seusss Whoville. Many people never use the word in speech at all.
14 Answers
This is a pretty obscure issue.
I think that when it's the subject of the verb it should be "who". "Who is coming with us?"
I think when it's the object of a preposition then "whom" can be used if you don't mind sounding a little formal. "For whom did you vote?"
I still use whom. To me it sounds better but I was drilled by nuns in the 1950s. That was either a crime or a blessing, have your pick!
I hear it every day, but it's probably because I work at a college, and my office is in the building that houses both the English and Spanish Depts. I do agree that you hardly hear it in 'normal,' day-to-day conversation, and therefore, most people don't know exactly how to use it.
Where I live it is never used.
Hmm, I found this link! I found it interesting and enlightening! Whom
Puffy schmuffy
lol I like using "whom" : to whom, for whom, etc. It's fun (to me). I don't hear it every day, but I hear it often enough (and use it as often as possible, lol). To each their own. ![]()
I still get confused by the proper use of "who" and "whom" but I use the rule about using the one being the object of the preposition to try to use the correct word.
Yo sí me confundo por el uso apropiado de 'who' y a 'whom' pero utilizo la regla sobre el uso de un objeto de la preposición para intentar a utiliza la palabra correcta.
I always find it funny when people say, "To whom am I speaking?"
I use "whom" all the time but I'm a trial lawyer and do a lot of formal writing.
It is becoming less common, like the prohibition on ending a sentence with a preposition. When I hear a colleague use proper English, I take note. They are likely to be well educated and well read and I am not likely to underestimate them in court or elsewhere.
There is nothing wrong with having taken the time to learn grammar in any language.
But you want people to learn good, grammatically sound Spanish, don't you? - FigueroaGara
Exactly!
Where I teach ESL, we recommend using 'whom' immediately after a preposition, but not otherwise. To me--and us--"To who did you give the package?" sounds terrible; whereas "Who did you give the package to?" sounds fine. Using a preposition right before the pronoun confers a formality that 'who' violates. It's lexical code switching even without the awful 'to'-'who' rhyme. I always use 'whom' when appropriate, but it's painful to hear it used incorrectly, which happens most of the time in spoken English. I think that it was in "Thurber Carnival" that an indignant woman responded to a criticism with, "Just []whom do you think you are?!" The two most common constructions in which 'whom' is used incorrectly are as a subject or predicate nominative when trying to be very formal (like the "Thurber Carnival" example) and as the subject of a clausal complement, like "I don't know []whom it was." Of course, 'whom' is in the objective case, so it can function as the object of a verb as well as of a preposition. It's interesting that Spanish, with all its inflections, doesn't change 'quien' for different cases.
I still use whom. It does sound a little formal but I don't consider it old-fashioned at all.
I find it ironic that native English speakers couldn't distinguish between ""who" and "whom" or "who's" and "whose" but people who learned English as a second language always strive to be grammatically correct.
This is part of my ongoing crusade against the grammar purists in the world. Jajaja. - gringojrf
O M G...you're talking about me! Jejeje
Like Ocbizlaw, I am a lawyer (and English major) and use it all the time.
Thanks for this post gringojrf. I have some doubts sometimes about using whom and who, but it seems that you guys as english native speakers don't use "whom" so much for informal conversations, right? But for formal writing it may be more used.
I hope you can solve my doubts, thanks again ![]()
When I first moved to Mexico I took an immersion class for one month, followed by five more months of daily classes of 2-3 hours. On top of that I did homework for 4-6 hours every day and more on weekends. I treated it like a job and put 50 - 60 hours a week into it. I still spoke poorly and got tongue-tied all the time.
On day out of pure frustration I said to myself, to h*ll with it. And I started talking, making errors in every sentence. Getting blank stares and getting laughed at. I laughed as well and asked what I did wrong. I quit worrying about grammar, instead I started communicating. I spoke Spanish 95% of the time for four years with all kinds of people, from university professors, doctors, architects, engineers, teachers and everyday laborers. I learn to hear my mistakes from listening to others and from being corrected. No shame, no fear.
Today my grammar is still far below that of many people on this site in both English and Spanish but I can and will speak Spanish with anyone anytime. I may not get 100% of it, and I still make errors but I can communicate in Spanish, grammar notwithstanding. Most people in everyday life do not care, I repeat do not care, if your grammar is correct. They may not even know just as I often don't know in English.
I know this is a learning site, much like being in school. But I say attend class (visit the site) then go out and talk just like you do/did with your friends outside of class. There are many questions about learning to talk and listen. It is an active task, you must do it to learn. Don't let fear of making mistakes and getting laughed at keep you from diving in. Forget the grammar, forget the lack of vocabulary, don't worry about the el/la articles for nouns. Dont; sweat the small stuff. It will come with practice. But you won't practice if you are afraid and trying to use perfect grammar adds to the fear.
Bastante. O quizás demasiado.