Why isn't definite article needed here?

Question

"Esta caja está llena de juguetes."

For this sentence, why not "los" juguetes?

In my confusion as to whether/when to include the article, I read that you (generally) include it when you're talking about a group or a category of things, but it's not needed when speaking of a specific thing.

Like (if I've understood correctly), you'd use it when saying "Me gusta la comida" (I like food), but it wouldn't be necessary when talking about a specific food, e.g. "Me gusta maíz."

I'm referencing knowledge gleaned from here ("generic nouns" section): http://spanish.about.com/cs/grammar/a/use_def_art_2.htm

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Why isn't 'the' definite article needed here? je je ;) - Kiwi-Girl, Feb 10, 2012

LoL!!! - UnNouveauDepart, Feb 10, 2012

Answer 1

I believe that you are wrong concerning not using the "the" when referring to specific things. Spanish uses the "the" to refer to specific objects just as we do in English. The definite article is also used with nouns that refer to generalizations.

No me gusta el maíz. No me gusta el maíz, pero me gustan los otros.

The reason why the definite article is not required in your sentence is because it its just talking about some indefinite toys, but not referring to any specific toys, yet it is not using toys to represent all toys in general.

Playing with toys are necessary for a child's development. (generic toys)

He put away the toys laying on the floor into his toybox. (referring to specific toys)

He received several toys for his birthday along with monetary gifts. (indefinite toys)

Answer 2

quoting the article you referenced:

Exception: The article is often omitted after the preposition de, especially when the noun following de serves to describe the first noun and doesn't refer to a specific person or thing.

This is precisely your example.

I'm am noticing that in your example "Esta caja está llena de juguetes" the "de juguetes" is a direct object. But in the example "Me gusta la comida" (The food is pleasing to me), the noun "la comida" is the subject. So there are differences in these 2 examples.

I'm a silly goose. You're correct; I provided a poor example for my question. Thanks for pointing out my "de"! :^) - UnNouveauDepart, Feb 10, 2012

I learn from each of these questions --- I read your article. Thanks. - CaliforniaDreamer, Feb 10, 2012

Answer 3

Thanks sooo much, UnNouveauDepart, for filling out your profile, and I certainly hope to see more of you

CaliforniaDreamer gave you an answer which relates directly to your question.

I would just like to add that in our own Grammar Section we have two treatments: (1) Definite Article uses and (2) Indefinite Article uses.

Both of these references leave some important information out, so they won't completely answer your question. However, I would add that when a quantifying adjective is used, you usually leave the definite/indefinite article out. In some cases the quantifying adjective may be understood:

Como helado. I am eating [some] ice cream.

¿Hay calabaza en la sopa? Is there a [any] squash in the soup?

Thank you for the resources! I hadn't even gotten there (yet?). :) - UnNouveauDepart, Feb 10, 2012

Answer 4

Thanks, all. However, I must respond this way to clarify a few things.

Re:

I believe that you are wrong concerning not using the "the" when referring to specific things. Spanish uses the "the" to refer to specific objects just as we do in English.

I didn't mean this in the way you interpreted it. Of course "the" is used to refer to specific objects in both languages when it's required. (i.e., One wouldn't say, "Hand me napkin"; one would say, "Hand me the napkin.")

To elucidate, I'll be more specific with my "corn" example.

"I like corn" is me saying, generally, that I really like the food that is corn. This is compared to saying, "I like food." I'm not saying I like THE food (that I have in front of me); I'm saying "I like food in general because I love to eat!"

So "corn" (subcategory) was the specific "food" (broad category), meaning that "food" was a nonspecific "thing" in my example. This is why I wondered if "la" or "el" would be unnecessary in "I like corn," vs. it being necessary in "I like food."

(I think I added complexity to the matter when introducing "gustarse," however, because I think this verb has different rules! sigh)

So how about:

I'm buying groceries from the store. -vs.- I'm buying apples (specific groceries) from the store.

Would those then be:

Estoy comprando los comestibles al supermercado. vs. Estoy comprando manzanas al supermercado. ("Los" not needed.)

...?

The reason why the definite article is not required in your sentence is because it its just talking about some indefinite toys, but not referring to any specific toys, yet it is not using toys to represent all toys in general.

Ahhh... This makes so much sense!!!!

So then, I should write like:

Las manzanas son una comida perfecta. (Ehh, disclaimer: I dunno if "comidas," etc., should be plural.)

And:

Por favor, compra manzanas al supermercado. (Please buy apples from the store.)

...but my brain is for some reason suggesting me that the above should be "compras 'las' manzanas" because I'm not telling you which particular apples to buy, just to buy some indefinite apples to restock the fridge? lol.

Whew! This whole thing has gotten a bit confusing.

I wrote Me gustan manzanas in an thread and a native told me that it must be: Me gustan las manzanas. - 0074b507, Feb 10, 2012

Answer 5

Los is a form of the. This sentence does not require the.

I know that it's a form of "the," but there are many (many) instances where these articles are required in Spanish, when they'd not make sense in a direct/literal translation back to English ... as explained on the About.com page I referenced. - UnNouveauDepart, Feb 9, 2012