How long have you been an intermediate Spanish speaker?
I raise this question here instead of in the "Cafe" because I think this is related more to language learning than "general chatting."
I noticed many members of this forum classify themselves as intermediate Spanish speakers. I find it is easy to speak a little Spanish (general pleasantry, but non-functional in daily life), but it is very hard to become a fluent speaker (fully functional in daily life) due to the grammars and the speed of speaking. I guess the intermediate level is between these two states. I am curious to know how many years have you been in the "intermediate speaker level"? This question is not limited to the current intermediate speakers but also to people who have reached fluency.
The reason I am asking this question is because everyone tells me Spanish is the easiest language to learn for English speakers, however, I do find it hard to speak due to the speech speed and the grammar details. It is easy to read in Spanish, but to be able to speak it well is a different story.
Muchas Gracias,
14 Answers
I changed my level to intermediate about 2 months ago. I did this purely because I wanted to type more lines/sentences on Heidita's 'Lets talk about...' threads. To be honest, I am not sure what being 'intermediate' actually means.
I would say I am probably advanced beginner/low intermediate in my reading and writing. However I'm very much a beginner with my speaking and listening.
At the end of the day, I don't think it really matters at what level you rate yourself. If I ever get to be able to understand and speak Spanish in most everyday situations I will be delighted. In real terms whatever you rate yourself as is totally irrelevant.
Here's what I think. There are four parts to any language. Reading, Writing, Hearing, Speaking. Everyone will progress in these four areas at different speeds. For example, I hear and speak pretty well (not fluent but can live entirely in spanish), but my writing and reading are not as advanced as my hearing and speaking. Why. Practice, practice and practice. I don't do enough reading and writing in spanish.
So while I consider myself advanced in hearing and speaking I am definitely intermediate in reading and writing.
Here is my non-academic levels of language skills (applied separately to each of the four areas):
Beginner: Small vocabulary, basic grammar skills, makes lots of mistakes and is not comfortable with more than very basic sentences and contexts.
Intermediate: Medium vocabulary, better grammar skills, still makes lots of mistakes but recognizes them as mistakes, sometimes can correct the mistakes and sometimes not. Can communicate on a wider range of topics.
Advanced: Larger vocabulary but still runs into new words all the time. I very secure in verb conjugation and has better grammar skills. May still struggle with the harder grammar rules like the subjunctive but knows what it is when seen or heard. Can communicate with anyone on a wide range of topics although may struggle with nuances and some words. Has confidence in communicating.
Fluent: Very large vocabulary. Seldom struggles for a word but has a replacement available immediately. Has completely mastered grammar. Can communicate like a native but may not have all the idiomatic expressions and nuances of a native.
Native: No explanation needed.
Is spanish easy to learn? Ask the mexicans and almost all of them will tell you that english is much easier to learn than spanish, with the exception of pronounciation.
What makes spanish hard? The number of tenses and the rules for their usage; the gender issue with nouns; the gender and number matching issues for nouns articles, pronouns and adjectives. Those for me are the big three.
Oh and to answer you question it took about a year of living entirely in spanish before I started to feel comfortable with hearing and speaking. The first year was a daily struggle.
For the last 3 years and six months, I have studied a minimum of 2 hours a day, usually 3 hours, and some days even more, but every week I usually have at least 15 or so hours. I usually have a few hours of some type of immersion as well. These hours do not include time spent on SD or other internet sites. I have not studied grammar, I am learning by listening to the language. My teacher coaches me in sound patterns and practice methods. In a years time I have spent at least 800 hours studying and I'm in my fourth year. I am not fluent in Spanish, but my speaking ability has been tested at an advanced level.
After giving a presentation today to a group of Hispanics I was then bombarded with questions, several people at the same time trying to talk with me. I can't even begin to tell you how overwhelming that is. Couple that with the fact that I am having to use vocabulary (discussing tax requirements, obtaining acceptable identification, etc.) that I can't hardly use in English, much less Spanish. What makes it really challenging is when you're talking with someone that knows absolutely no English, so they have no English 'point of reference', so if you can't communicate, you're on your own, and there is no one to help you.
If it takes 250-350 hours of study to become a competent Spanish speaker, I must be the village idiot. After an event like today, I feel like the perfectly incompetent Spanish speaker, but then other people told me I did great. So who knows? This thing of 'levels' and 'competency' is such a moving target in my opinion.
Since 1976. That's when I moved to Venezuela and started using it every day. Then I moved back to the U S and stopped using it every day. I don't know if I'll ever be fluent.
Try not to think too much about the grammatical rules. Pay attention to how native speakers talk. Thinking and translating in your head will just slow you down. The speed comes from not thinking, and lots of practice.
Fluent: Very large vocabulary. Seldom struggles for a word but has a replacement available immediately. Has completely mastered grammar. Can communicate like a native but may not have all the idiomatic expressions and nuances of a native.
Wow. That means I'm not fluent in English, my native language. How depressing.
I read an article saying that for English speakers, it usually takes 250-350 hours of study to become a competent speaker in Spanish.
Maybe with that much conversing you would get to intermediate but studying, no way. My opinion.
Anyway, I want to find out from our community here what's the realistic expectations to progress from intermediate Spanish speaker level to advanced speaker level in your own experience.
One year to reach intermediate and another two to reach advanced. And that was living in the language 24/7. Maybe I'm a slow learner.
I realized my choice of the word "classified" made this thread a bit off track. Sorry. I think people here classify them very reasonably and may even be a bit on the humble side. TheSilentHer's way of classifying makes so much sense to me.
My question is, given the classifications are all valid, how long does it usually take to progress from "intermediate" level to advanced level (using Gringojrf's definition) if one can keep study Spanish about 1 hour per day.
I read an article saying that for English speakers, it usually takes 250-350 hours of study to become a competent speaker in Spanish. I found this statement very untrue for me, and it is almost too good to be true in general. I have also used the Pimsleur CDs, even at the level III. Even though they label the level to be "High Intermediate", they are talking about things that's still very basic. So I start to wonder, maybe those language teaching organizations want to define competent level to be very low, so people will be more willing to jump in initially-- kinda like the name-brand clothes makers label their clothes size to be smaller, so people feel happier to be able to fit into "smaller sized" clothes.
Anyway, I want to find out from our community here what's the realistic expectations to progress from intermediate Spanish speaker level to advanced speaker level in your own experience.
Muchas gracias,
I've been an intermediate for half a month. I did this because since I am already half way through Spanish II and have been on Spanishdict for 1 month and been looking up words to use for 1 & 1/2 year. So it is safe to say intermediate. Plus, it is me being humble enough to not call myself advanced LOL! I am just too humble, aren't I? I would not say advanced because I am not that confident that I can hold my own against a conversation.
I have been studying Spanish for about a year and a half. I just changed my level to Intermediate about 2 months ago.
Somebody who started learning Spanish yesterday is a beginner... and I hope I know more than them. LOL.
Honestly, if there was a level between Beginner and Intermediate, I would have probably chosen that.
The best answer I have ever found on how long it takes to learn is here:-
Level 1.Each rating designates a particular degree of mastery of the language for business and social purposes:
2.Elementary proficiency. The person is able to satisfy routine travel needs and minimum courtesy requirements.
3.Limited working proficiency. The person is able to satisfy routine social demands and limited work requirements.
4.Minimum professional proficiency. The person can speak the language with sufficient structural accuracy and vocabulary to participate effectively in most formal and informal conversations on practical, social, and professional topics.
5.Full professional proficiency. The person uses the language fluently and accurately on all levels normally pertinent to professional needs.
Native or bilingual proficiency. The person has speaking proficiency equivalent to that of an educated native speaker.
How long, one wonders, does it take a person to achieve the minimum 1, and how much longer after that to reach a 2 or a 3?
FSI researchers studied the performance of all their students during a three–year period, noting the ratings they received after various periods of training. Table 1 shows the results for the "easy" languages and for the "hard" languages. Incidentally, the definition of "easy" and "hard" were arrived at by including only Group 1 languages — for the most part the "Romance" languages —under the "easy" languages, while "hard" languages included Groups 2,3, and 4.languages — all other languages — as listed in the second part of the Table below. Whether this is the most valid, or even useful definition of easy and hard to learn languages, depends to a large degree upon whether one feels that language instruction, regardless of learner or teacher preference, must start with each individual learner gradually acquiring an increasing control of the spoken language, before adding written skills, or with the current standard academic approach to avoid language as a spoken skill at first, and work with an eclectic, mixed approach using a written grammar– translation and oral–drill combination, perhaps with a language laboratory, or combinations of film, CD–ROM and/or other equipment. There are advocates on both sides.
"Easy" Languages: (Ratings of FSI students speaking a Group 1 language after specified Periods of training.)
8 weeks (240 hours) 1/1+ 16 weeks (480 hours) 2 24 weeks (720 hours) 2+
"Hard" Languages: (Ratings of FSI students speaking a Group 2–4 language after specified Periods of training.)
12 weeks (360 hours) 1/1+ 24 weeks (720 hours) 1+ /2 44 weeks (1320 hours) 2/2+ /3
Which Are the "Easy" and "Hard" Languages?
Group 1: French, German, Indonesian, Italian, Portuguese, Romanian, Spanish, Swahili
Group 2: Bulgarian, Burmese, Greek, Hindi, Persian, Urdu
Group 3: Amharic, Cambodian, Czech, Finnish, Hebrew, Hungarian, Lao, Polish, Russian, Serbo-Croatian, Thai, Turkish, Vietnamese
Group 4: Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Korean
In reality, these time estimates are a little lower than they at first appear; holidays and other lost time reduce them by about 10 percent. Nevertheless, the meaning is clear. If you are a language learner of average ability, and you undertake an "easy" language, it will probably take you about 240 hours to get to the first level of mastery in speaking it, and double that to get to Level 2. If you are slower than average at learning languages, allow 50 percent more time, if faster, 50 percent less.
These figures are based on a particular type of instruction: the FSI intensive course where one studies a language for six hours a day, five days a week, in a class of no more than 10 students, led by an experienced linguist and a well–trained native drillmaster. The school is a language–learning paradise, the students are highly motivated, and optimum results are achieved. Yet these estimates are reasonably valid for people who, like most of us, have no choice but to attend a conventional course that meets forty–five minutes a day or a couple of evenings a week
Full article is here:- link text
I wouldn't agree that Spanish is the easiest foreign language for English speakers, that is a frequent misconception...... However, it's really a matter of personal opinion.
I believe that on a grammatical level, French is considerably easier than Spanish, but it's the pronunciation problems that make it a difficult language.
For example, the large amount of irregular verbs, the more awkward conjugations, an additional past tense, the 2 verbs for "to be" and the widespread use of the subjunctive are just some of the reasons why Spanish is more difficult than French.
While I think I know the grammar at an intermediate-advanced level, and I'm always learning new vocabulary, I can't speak at an advanced level. Once I can do that I will call myself advanced. Listening is a mixed bag, depends on what the person is talking about and how fast. I label myself intermediate mostly because I know I'm not a beginner.
I've been actively and independently studying Spanish for two years. I think I hit the intermediate mark a year ago, maybe a year and a half (mind you, I still had somewhat of a foundation from high school, though not strong). So, let's just say I've been intermediate for 1 year. I don't feel comfortable enough in the language to say that I'm advanced (I had the most embarrassing moment today), but I know I'm not a beginner-intermediate. I guess I'm advanced-intermediate or somewhere thereabouts. I hope to reach advanced soon and I feel like I'm almost there, but there's no telling.
I am so grateful for everyone's thoughtful and detailed feedback. Now I have a much realistic view about how long and what level of effort it will take to become advanced or fluent in Spanish. Despite of its appeared "conveniences" of pronunciation regularity and many cognates with English, Spanish is not an easy language to master. I am glad my expectation is properly set at the early stage of learning this beautiful language spoken by so many different people and cultures all over the world.
Thank you all for being so helpful and enlightening. Hope this thread will help other beginners like me to set a proper expectation therefore an adequate plan to learn Spanish.
Muchas gracias,
