moving on...to the subjunctive

Question

I'm happy to say that i am feeling pretty confident with pret/imperfect (of course i will continue to practice in my spare time) and am continuing on to the subjunctive! I have a very basic idea of te subjunctive, and I usually find myself using it only with "que."

Espero que vaya a ir al centro commercial. I hope that I will go to the mall.

Deseo que no tenga este coche peor. I wish I didnt have this poor car.

No creo que sea justo para detener una persona por expresando sus creencias. I don't beleive its just to arrest someone for expressing their beliefs.

However I have alsoe seen subjunctive sentences like this:

Si fuera el presidente, yo usaría mas sabio el dinero de los "tax payers." If i was the president, i would use the tax payer's money more wisely.

iI guess the subjunctive is used in the last sentence bacuse of an occourance contrary to fact? That's a little confusing to me trying to decide a sentence crontrary to fact. Anyone got any good tips that helped them with the subjunctive? (ps, ya sé como usar W.E.I.R.D.O.)

Forgive me for asking, but I don't know about weirdo. Will it help me out? - Pinolero, Jan 3, 2012

Please be sure to set a good example for those who are learning English by following appropriate standards of orthography (i.e. capitalize the pronoun "I"). Thanks :) - Izanoni1, Jan 3, 2012

Sorry! I'm using my android phone and it's a real pain to type with. - BradyLabuda, Jan 3, 2012

I understand. I'm not that adroit myself when it comes to texting; however, it is imperative to try to follow the norms of grammar and orthography when posting, as this is one of our forum guidelines. Thanks :) - Izanoni1, Jan 3, 2012

Answer 1

A few suggestions:

Espero que vaya a ir al centro comercial. I hope that i will to go to the mall.

There is no change in subject, so the infinitive works better here. If there were a change in subject, you might see something like:

Espero que vaya al centro comercial ? I hope that he goes to the mall

Also, we don't normally see double m's in Spanish (i.e. comercial) as we do in Latin (commerc?um) and English (commercial).

Deseo Ojalá (que) no tenga tuviera este coche peor. I wish i didnt I didn't have this poor car.

The expression "Deseo que (yo) no tuviera" I believe might sound a bit odd. It would probably be far more common in this sort of construction to use "ojalá."

I wasn't sure in what sense you meant "poor car," but the expression "este coche peor" also struck me as a bit odd.

No creo que sea justo para detener una persona a alguien por expresando expresar sus creencias. I don't beleive its believe it's just/fair to arrest someone for expressing their beliefs.

The use of "para" is unnecessary because in this case, the expression "detener a alguien..." acts as the subject of the verb "ser," and as such, it should not be introduced by a preposition. In English this would be like starting a sentence in the following manner, "In order to arrest a person is just."

However I have also seen subjunctive sentences like this:

Si yo fuera el presidente, yo usaría mas sabio gastaría el dinero de los "tax payers" ** contribuyentes con más prudencia.** If I was was/were the president, I would use the tax payer's money more wisely.

I'm not sure that it is wrong, but the use of the definite article "el" before the word president seems to almost beg the question "which president?" "de los Estados Unidos?" "de México?" etc.

In English, "were" would be the correct subjunctive verb form; however, in this sort of context, actual usage probably sees close to a fifty-fifty split between "were" and "was."

I guess the subjunctive is used in the last sentence bacuse because of an occourance occurrence that is contrary to fact? That's a little confusing to me, trying to decide whether a sentence crontrary is contrary to fact. Anyone got any good tips that helped them with the subjunctive? (ps, ya sé como usar W.E.I.R.D.O.)

Personally, I do not have much use for the W.E.I.R.D.O. acronym. The best explanation that I have come across regarding the use of the subjunctive is to describe it as the verbal mode that is generally used to avoid making a declarative statement. While if clauses that employ the subjunctive, do indeed describe a contrary-to-fact condition, it is better to look at this usage as a way of avoiding a declaration. In this sense, the subjunctive is sometimes used very similarly to the way that we sometimes use the infinitive, especially in English. For example:

Quiero ir a la playa ? I want to go to the beach

Here the infinitive verb phrase "to go to the beach/ir a la playa" acts as the direct object of the verb "querer/want" and completes its meaning. Notice that in this case, the act of "going to the beach" is not stated as though it were a declaration, i.e. we are not saying that, "I am going to the beach" or that "I go to the beach," instead we are merely commenting on the fact that this is an activity that "I want to do."

The subjunctive, in Spanish, fills a similar role when we see a change in subject. For example:

Quiero que vaya a la playa ? I want him to go to the beach.

Here, the proposition of "going to the beach" is again presented as more of a comment on the desire than a realized or declared action. Again we are not declaring that "he is going to the beach" but rather commenting that "him going to the beach" is something that is desired. If we pay attention to the translation, we can see that in English rather than employ a designated subjunctive verb form, we instead often find the infinitive verb form accompanied by a disjunctive pronoun "him to go to the beach." Again, it should be clear that such a proposition does not resemble a declarative statement.

It is not so much a case of "wishes," "emotions," "impersonal expressions" etc that drive the use of the subjunctive, so much as it is a need to present the informational content of the given verb phrase in a non-declarative fashion. Likewise, trying to pigeon hole the subjunctive as a verb form characteristic of hypothetical or contrary-to-fact conditions also has its shortcomings.

For example, saying something like, "Si yo fuera president..." clearly falls into the realm of the hypothetical (i.e. clearly, I am not president); however, it becomes more difficult to reconcile the idea of the counter-factual nature of the subjunctive in cases such as:

"Estoy feliz de que estés aquí" ? I am happy that you are here

Looking at the translation offered above might make it difficult to conceive of how the verb phrase "you are here" could be construed as "non-declarative," and rightly so. The fact is that this typical translation does not fully incorporate the idea behind the use of the subjunctive in Spanish. To fully grasp the significance, it would be better to instead translate the expression as:

I am happy about you being here

—or—

I am happy for you to be here

In any case, the key to learning should be to recognize the subjunctive when you see it, and furthermore to have at least a tenuous understanding as to the semantics behind its use. In my opinion, the best way to do this is by grasping the idea of declarative (indicative) vs non-declarative (subjunctive).

Using the subjunctive properly, on the other hand, is probably a skill that is best developed through repeated exposure to the Spanish language. In real time, reliance on the W.I.E.R.D.O. rule, or any other rule for that matter, is not likely to be of much benefit as conversations tend to flow at a rate much to fast to make such devices practical. Instead, the main goal early on should be to be able to (1) recognize the verb forms when they are encountered and (2) understand the semantics behind there usage, a value that is most conveniently reduced to the declarative/non-declarative dichotomy mentioned earlier. From that point, facility with the language can be developed more efficiently by repeated and frequent exposure to comprehensible aural and visual input.

Of course this is just my opinion, and I know plenty who swear by W.E.I.R.D.O., but for me, it just isn't that useful.

Well...that certainly got out of hand quickly... - Izanoni1, Jan 3, 2012

Buenísima explicación. Me has impresionado. :-) - AvilésMaristany, Jan 3, 2012

wonderful explanation as always Izanoni. - billygoat, Jan 4, 2012

Thank you a ton. This was very, very useful. :) - BradyLabuda, Jan 4, 2012

Answer 2

One thing that's helped me learn it better is to know more about the English subjunctive. Study up some on the English subjunctive (in this case Wikipedia isn't so bad). It will make things a little more clear. good luck!

Answer 3

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