Present Subjunctive Example, Help
I have been studying the present subjunctive for a few days and I'm starting to get a through understanding. However, I'm trying to understand why the present indicative of "ganar" is used in the sentence below and not the present subjunctive? Shouldn't the entire "dependent clause" use subjunctive verb conjugations?
Example: No es bueno que gastes más que ganas.
7 Answers
"It is not good/that -you would spend- more than you earn"
The word "que" marks the dependent clause and combined with the leading "No es bueno" indicates that this is a statement of feeling/suggestion/moral imperative -- and therefore the subjunctive mood is needed! "Gastes" is in the present subjunctive because the speaker doesn't know if you will spend or not (but he/she feels that you shouldn't) -- the second part of the sentence is present indicative because the speaker does know that you will earn something.
The first sentence is correct in English, by the way (although it sounds weird to modern speakers.) I think most modern English speakers would use a direct imperative (Do not spend more than you earn) or rewrite the sentence as "Spending more than you earn is not good."
Spending more than you earn is not good.
This is what I don't get - this is not subjective in English it is FACT so why does it need to be subjunctive in Spanish?
In both Spanish and English, the declaration, or fact, is presented by the copular verb "to be," that is to say that when we present the statement, "Something is not good," as a fact, we are in effect using the indicative (is) in order to make a declaration based on our perception of reality.
The subjunctive mood, on the other hand, is used precisely to avoid making such declarations. Notice that in the sentence you have suggested above, the verb "spend" does not appear in a personal form, but is presented in the gerund. As with the subjunctive in Spanish, in English we often employ a gerund or an infinitive in order to avoid making a declaration. For example, compare the following three remarks:
?Spending more than you earn [gerund/non-declarative]
?To spend more than you earn [infinitive/non-declarative]
?You spend more than you earn [indicative/declarative]
Not incidentally, only the indicative can stand alone as a complete thought, a fact which likewise extends to the typical subjunctive form, as well as the form using the modal auxiliary "would" that was suggested earlier by Paralyze:
?that you spend more than you earn [subjunctive/non-declarative]
?that you would spend more than you earn [modal auxiliary/non-declarative]
It should not be difficult to see why the subjunctive functions this way when we consider that the term "subjunctive" originally comes from the Latin term "subjungere" meaning "subjoined" or "appended or added to the end of what has already been stated." For this reason, the subjunctive is often considered the verb tense of subordinate clauses as it is often found appended to certain transitive verbs, acting as a complement, and completing the idea of what has already been stated.
In English, as you may have already noted, we do not witness a morphological distinction between the present indicative and present subjunctive verb forms in the second person singular form of the verb. Namely, both the indicative and subjunctive take the form "spend." In fact, only in the third person singular do we find a distinction in form:
?that he spend/spends more than he earns [subjunctive/indicative]
Due largely to the similarities noted above, in English, the distinction between the subjunctive and indicative is often blurred or lost altogether when we employ the designated subjunctive verb form to complete our statement. This can be noted by the effect of the following completed statement:
?It is not good that you spend more than you earn.
The lack of morphological distinction between the verb forms here, makes it unclear whether the expression "you spend" should be considered declarative or non-declarative in nature. Thus, we see a blending or overlap, a certain ambiguity, that would not normally occur in Spanish.
Therefore, to conserve the non-declarative function of the subjunctive in Spanish, we often resort to some of the forms noted above:
No es bueno que gastes más que ganas.
?It is not good that you spend more than you earn [ambiguous form]
?It is not good that you would spend more than you earn [modal auxiliary]
?It is not good for you to spend more than you earn [infinitive with disjunctive pronoun]
Of these three, the infinitive is probably the most natural choice to complete the statement in this case. The fact that the infinitive should be used this way might not come as a surprise when we consider that it is often the form chosen when we don't have a change in subject or when no explicit subject is given. For example, consider the following:
No explicit subject:
No es bueno gastar tanto dinero.
?It's not good to spend so much money.
No change in subject:
No quiero gastar tanto dinero.
?I don't want to spend so much money.
In fact, if we take a closer look at the last of these two, we might gain a little insight into why the infinitive often presents itself as a good alternative in English when we wish to capture the non-declarative nature of the subjunctive. Notice, for example, that when we have no change in subject in both Spanish and English, we use the infinitive to complete the thought. One key difference then, lies in the fact that in Spanish, when we have a change in subject, we can no longer rely on the infinitive form of the verb to maintain the non-declarative nature of the verbal complement but instead must resort to the subjunctive, a restriction that is not seen in English:
| Spanish | Verb Form | English | Verb Form |
| No quiero gastar tanto dinero | infinitive | I don't want to spend so much money. | infinitive |
| No quiero que gastes tanto dinero | subjunctive | I don't want (for) you to spend so much money. | infinitive |
| No quiero que gaste tanto dinero | subjunctive | I don't want (for) him to spend so much money. | infinitive |
| No quiero que gastemos tanto dinero | subjunctive | I don't want (for) us to spend so much money. | infinitive |
| No quiero que gasten tanto dinero | subjunctive | I don't want (for) them to spend so much money. | infinitive |
In both the English and the Spanish, however, we observe that the complement to the main verb is presented in a non-declarative manner by using either the infinitive or subjunctive verb form. Again, in English, the infinitive is often preferred when we wish to convey the same non-declarative feel exhibited by the Spanish subjunctive.
It is probably worth noting that the gerund can often fill the same non-declarative roll as the infinitive in English (the acceptability of such expressions is, however, influenced, at least in some degree, by variations in regional usage):
| Spanish | Verb Form | English | Verb Form |
| No quiero gastar tanto dinero | infinitive | I don't want to spend so much money. | infinitive |
| No quiero que gastes tanto dinero | subjunctive | I don't want you spending so much money. | gerund |
| No quiero que gaste tanto dinero | subjunctive | I don't want him spending so much money. | gerund |
| No quiero que gastemos tanto dinero | subjunctive | I don't want us spending so much money. | gerund |
| No quiero que gasten tanto dinero | subjunctive | I don't want them spending so much money. | gerund |
This discussion of the gerund leads naturally back to the original question:
Spending more than you earn is not good.
This is what I don't get - this is not subjective in English it is FACT so why does it need to be subjunctive in Spanish?
Hopefully, this discussion has elucidated the fact that it is not so much the factual or non-factual nature of the idea being expressed by the verb as it is the declarative vs. non-declarative ideas being conveyed, a point which, hopefully, can be illustrated by one final series of examples:
No es bueno gastar más de lo que se ingresa
Let's take this sentence and slice it up into two components on the basis of declarative nature:
| Spanish | English | Comment |
| No es bueno | It's not good | Declarative |
| Gastar más de lo que se ingresa | Spending more than is taken in | Non-declarative |
| To spend more than is taken in | Non-declarative | |
If we amend our original sentence to make a personal reference then we see the following effect:
No es bueno que gastes más de lo que ingresas.
| Spanish | English | Comment |
| No es bueno | It's not good | Declarative |
| Gastes más de lo que se ingresa | for you to spend more than you take in. | Non-declarative |
| that you should spend more than you take in. | Non-declarative | |
| that you spend more than you take in. | Ambiguous | |
There is one final point that I would like to make regarding the subjunctive as it pertains to the following statement:
This is what I don't get - this is not subjective in English it is FACT so why does it need to be subjunctive in Spanish?
I would like to point out that despite the similarity in form between the words "subjunctive" and "subjective," the two ideas, in terms of grammar, are two ideas which are not uniformly related. As I noted earlier, the word subjunctive stems from the idea of subjoining or appending of additional information as it applies to the completion of a statement. Stated plainly, the subjunctive is not a mood which can be characterized as being related directly to subjectivity, a fact that can be illustrated by the following examples:
?Creo que es bueno gastar más de lo que se ingresa ? I believe that it is good to spend more than is taken in.
?No creo que sea bueno gastar más de lo que se ingresa ? I believe it to be good to spend more than is taken in.
Both the expression "I believe (creo)" and "I don't believe (no creo)" are related to subjective thought, yet this has no effect on which verbal mood follows the verb "creo."
It is not so much the subjectivity inherent to the statement then which dictates our choice of a particular verbal mode, but the declarative nature of the idea being conveyed.
Reading through these answers reminded me of something I learned once that may help you. Impersonal expressions that indicate opinion or subjective reaction usually require the subjunctive as seen in your example. However, when making a generalization it is preferable to take out the subjunctive because it reduces the doubt factor of the statement. In these cases the infinitive is used which would change your sentence to: "No es bueno gastar más de lo que se gana"
However, the speaker uses the words "It is a good thing" to indicate that the following will be an opinion or feeling. He is stating that regardless of whether or not you agree with him, he feels that you should kill mosquitoes. That makes it subjunctive.
Whether it is an opinion or feeling is not what triggers the subjunctive. Each of the following statements conveys an opinion or feeling, yet the choice of subjunctive or indicative is not dictated by this fact:
?Cree/Opina que debes matar los mosquitos [He feels that you should kill mosquitos ? indicative]
Maybe he doesn't know what your opinion is on the subject; however, he feels (he presents the opinion) that it is a bad idea. That makes it subjunctive. He's not trying to read your mind because he can't know how you feel about things.
?No se debe matar los mosquitos [You/One shouldn't kill mosquitos ? indicative]
Again, it is not the factual nature, nor the subjectivity of the statement which dictates the choice of verbal mode, but the declarative (or non-declarative) nature with which an idea is being presented. While it is often true that counter-factual or hypothetical ideas are presented in the subjunctive, the underlying reason has to do not so much with the factual nature of the statement as it relates to reality but with the fact that it would be paradoxical to simultaneously declare (affirm the reality of) an idea or situation that we are declaring to be hypothetical or unreal.
For English speakers, this difference can be difficult to discern given the relative lack of inflection that is exhibited by our verb forms, especially in the present tense across all verbal modes:
Bare Infinitive: Eat
| Indicative | Subjunctive | Imperative | |
| 1st person | I eat | I eat | — |
| we eat | we eat | — | |
| 2nd person | you eat | you eat | eat |
| you eat | you eat | eat | |
| 3rd person | he/she eats | he/she eat | — |
| they eat | they eat | — |
This lack of variety, often makes it difficult to distinguish between the non-declarative and declarative nature of a sentence as we pass from Spanish to English. For example, consider the following sentence which takes the subjunctive in Spanish:
No es justo que me hables así
In English, this could be translated as:
It's not right that you talk to me like that.
Notice that the form of the second person verb "talk" is the same in both the subjunctive and indicative, so that it becomes unclear whether in English this clause is meant to be taken as a declaration or not. In Spanish, there is, however, no such ambiguity, so that the idea being conveyed by the subjunctive is better conserved by using an alternative verbal form such as
It's not right for you to talk to me like that.
Here, we avoid making the declaration, "You talk to me like that" by instead employing the infinitive verb accompanied by a disjunctive pronoun to indicate the change in subject: "for you to talk to me like that."
The difference in the declarative nature of each mode might be better illustrated by an example of the use of modal auxiliary verbs, a limited class of verbs which often substitute for verbal inflection in that they are generally used to signal a particular verbal mode. Take, for example, the following sentence:
Me temo que sea ya demasiado tarde
In English, the verb "to be," does indeed exhibit a distinct subjunctive form from the indicative, so we might be tempted to translate this sentence word for word:
I am afraid that it be already too late.
Of course, such a translation would not reflect contemporary usage and would come off sounding stilted or outdated. Because of this, we might consider a translation which would employ the indicative verb form, a practice that is not altogether uncommon:
I am afraid that it is already too late.
This option is still somewhat unsatisfactory because it presents the idea of "it being too late" in the form of a declaration, viz. "It is already too late." As I have mentioned earlier, an infinitive or gerund can often be employed; however, in this case, the results of such a substitution are sometimes only marginally acceptable:
?I am afraid for it to be already too late. [awkward]
?I am afraid of it being already too late. [acceptable in some areas]
In such cases, a better result can often be obtained by including an appropriate modal auxiliary:
?I am afraid that it might already be too late.
?I am afraid that it could already be too late.
In both cases we see that we avoid making the declaration, "It is indeed already too late" by instead maintaining the more neutral position that "it could be too late" or "it might be too late," two statements which by their very nature also imply that it is also possible for the opposite to be true, that is to say that "it might also not be too late" or "it could also not be too late." Thus, by using the modal auxiliary verb, we avoid making the declaration mentioned above and maintain a closer relationship to the original Spanish sentence which also presents the idea of "being too late" in a non-declarative fashion.
Shouldn't the entire "dependent clause" use subjunctive verb conjugations?
Yes, or you could use the infinitive as suggested--in fact, since this is a general truth rather than a specific instance, I think the infinitive coupled with the indicative is better.
In the case of an anticipated future event, how could you possibly declare one part and not the other? The real issue is that you are declaring how you feel, not what the other person is going to do: the entire subordinate clause should be in the subjunctive mood in this case.
One day while hiking you run across an old monk in a forest full of mosquitoes and he states:
"It is a good thing, that you would kill more mosquitos than you protect."
"It is a bad idea, that you would kill more mosquitos than you protect."
Both of these sentences (in English) are in the subjunctive mood ("would" used as a subjunctive form of the infinitive "to will", i.e. "to command.")
Most people (but not all) would agree that killing mosquitoes is a good thing. From their point of view, sentence 1 is a factual statement. However, the speaker uses the words "It is a good thing" to indicate that the following will be an opinion or feeling. He is stating that regardless of whether or not you agree with him, he feels that you should kill mosquitoes. That makes it subjunctive.
Suppose that there's some crazy guy out there who thinks mosquitoes are sacred and should never be killed. From his point of view, the first sentence is false, and the second sentence is factual. Maybe he doesn't know what your opinion is on the subject; however, he feels (he presents the opinion) that it is a bad idea. That makes it subjunctive. He's not trying to read your mind because he can't know how you feel about things.
In other words, you can have the opinion that it's a bad idea to spend more than you earn, without being required to force the listener to accept your opinion as fact -- this is the reason for the use of the subjunctive in your example. Even if it's quite obviously a fact -- who among us would agree that spending more money than you earn is a good thing? -- the subjunctive phrasing recognizes that you may not believe it's a fact, or that you may disagree with it for whatever reason. (Perhaps you are part of a religion -- the First Church of Mastercard -- where you feel you are obligated to spend more than you earn.) It respects the opinion of the listener.
The imperative or indicative can be used for fact; the Spanish subjunctive is used for moods and feelings, among other things. Modern English tends to use the imperative/indicative almost exclusively, which makes it harder to understand when learning Spanish 
Spending more than you earn is not good.
This is what I don't get - this is not subjective in English it is FACT so why does it need to be subjunctive in Spanish?
No es bueno que gastes más que ganas. is not opinion either
I don't "get it"
No quiero que gastes más que ganas.
