Example used to exhibit the correct use of 'Para'

Question

In your lesson describing the differences between Por and Para, there is an example provided that I do not understand. I am hoping you will be able to clarify this example for me. The example is provided in the section discussing the use of 'para' to indicate; "The person at the end of an action, the person who receive the action." The example provided is "Juan te llamo para ti" (Juan called for you). I do not understand why both "te" ( I think as a direct object pronoun) and "ti" (prepositional object pronoun) are used. Are both of these pronouns required to indicate that it was "you" that Juan called? I asked a Spanish speaking person about this. She said that she would normally say: "Juan llamo para ti" The only thing I can think of is that the logic behind using both pronouns is because, doing so, clarifies that ... it was you that Juan called AND his call was to speak to "you" (versus calling you and wanting to speak to a friend of his, who happened to be visiting "you") Thank you Alan Harris London Ontario Canada

p.s. I ask because the use and placement of pronouns has been a big problem for me. I haven't found a good way to get my thinking right to make this feel more natural.

llamó... - Jeremias, Dec 19, 2011

Yes, very sloppy of me. Thank you - al_on_spanishdic, Dec 19, 2011

Answer 1

Juan te llamo para ti

to me, it's incorrect, as Lorenzo has pointed out.

Juan llamó para ti

... I'm not used to hearing this, and in fact I can't understand what it means.

We'd say only: Juan te llamó / Te llamó Juan

it is incorrect :) - lorenzo9, Dec 19, 2011

Oh, no. What a mistake! Thank you , Lorenzo - cogumela, Dec 19, 2011

To be fair it may well have been unfair to my friend. She does not speak English and may have understood what I was asking. I believe that the construction "Juan called for you" does not exist in Spanish. I am amazed by and appreciate all the assistance - al_on_spanishdic, Dec 19, 2011

Answer 2

A comment based on my current (ie. not yet intermediate) level of understanding of Spanish grammar:

Your confusion is well founded: the sentence is incorrect. As you state, you cannot have both the indirect object and the object of a preposition acting as an adyacente circunstanciál linked to the same verb and referring to the same thing.

Here is a thread with a post by lazarus discussing this topic.

Using "a" for the indirect object is correct, but completely different, since the object is now an indirect object with a redundant atonic indirect object pronoun rather than the object of a preposition.

Answer 3

"Juan te llamó para ti." In formal Spanish (and mostly written), when you use the pronouns me, te or le, you have to add the indirect object at the end (a/para mí, a/para mí or a/para él/ella/usted). But in informal Spanish (spoken), you can just say "Juan llamó para ti".

Note that when you use the "para ti", you don't need to add anything else. But when you use "te", you have to add "para ti" at the end. For example: Doy un regalo a ella. I give her a gift OR Le doy un regalo a ella. I giver her a gift.

Thank you 'lydianish' In your example, is "a ella" added as a rule, or is this a case of a prepositional phrase being added to remove the ambiguity of using "le" (he/she/it) - al_on_spanishdic, Dec 20, 2011