Why it's se guardan?

Question

En tre el dormitorio de Felipe y el de sus padres está la biblioteca de la familia. Allí se guardan todavía mayor cantidad de libros.

Why it's SE guarda? Can I omit SE?

No, keep it! I can't explain but it has to be there... - annierats, Dec 14, 2011

Answer 1

songle: mayor cantidad de libros is the subject so guardarse make it passive

Heidita: sorry, this is not correct

Isn't it?

Yes, of course it is.

Mayor cantidad de libros is the subject of the sentence:

Aquí se guarda libros It's not impersonal, at least it is not a pure impersonal, but rather a "pasiva refleja"

Aquí se guardan libros --> Libros son guardados aquí

Yes, I know it sounds awful, it's only to point that "libro" is indeed the subject of the sentence.

Note the concordance:

Aquí se guarda un libro

Un libro es guardado aquí

Therefore the sentence is passive, or "impersonal with se", which is basically the same.

Pure impersonal sentences are always in the singular:

Aquí se vive bien

Aquí se viven bien

As ever, cogumela, you're fairly understandable. In so far as I can understand these things.. - annierats, Dec 14, 2011

Annie... I love that. Cogu...nice explanation. - MLucie, Dec 14, 2011

i agree - Rey_Mysterio, Dec 14, 2011

Quite right. - Castor77, Dec 14, 2011

Answer 2

i agree with cogumela and chileno

Answer 3

Guardarse is impersonal here.

Se guardan ...one keeps

Heidita...are you sure?

impersonal se

Impersonal voice using se will use a singular verb since the se can be replaced by uno ("one").

se guarda could be one keeps, but not se guardan...that has to be "they are kept" [or it can be reflexive]

guardan without the se can be impersonal "they"

Se vende coches aquí. impersonal one or you One sells cars here.

Se venden coches aquí. Passive voice. Cars are sold here.

The Passive Voice in Spanish is normally formed by using se + the third person singular or plural conjugation of a verb

look above...I will quit from now on....you can take my job, oh, hmmm, you would have to be the queen, does that suit you? :P - 00494d19, Dec 14, 2011

I might look good in a dress. - 0074b507, Dec 14, 2011

se guarda=it is kept=singular, se guardan=they are kept-plural - xicotillo, Dec 14, 2011

Answer 4

Heidita:

In English, the translation is "... are kept" = "...son guardados (se guardan)"

i agree - Rey_Mysterio, Dec 14, 2011

Answer 5

Entre.

If it were not plural I would say that it was passive voice: There, a still larger quantity of books are kept. But that would be singular to to match quantity. [of books just being an adjective prepositional phrase modifying quantitiy]

If you removed the se, guardan could be active voice and impersonal "they". They keep a still larger quantity of books there.

I like the 2nd question you asked...why is it se guarda? I wish it were. I can't even see it as reflexive if guardan is plural. And guardan being plural rules out the impersonal you or one use of se.

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Addendum:

Ok, the issue is resolved for me. I see this sentence as passive voice and the se should be used. My problem was the plural verb since I saw the subject as quantity (singular); not books (plural).

After doing some research on determiners (quantifiers) I see that a lot of and such phrases (here: a quantity of) are adjectives so books is the subject. If the subject is plural I see no problems with the sentence. se guardan is passive voice.

Answer 6

Sounds reasonable, Cogumela. I'm not an expert on Spanish grammar of course, but I do know something about grammar in general. The snag seems to be that 'mayor cantidad' is singular though it refers to a plural, a meaning which in this case is enhanced by the plural 'libros''. And in these cases some languages opt for a verb in the singular to match with the singular noun (which may be plural in meaning), other languages require a verb in the plural to match with the plural, in this case 'libros'. This seems to be the case in this sentence. The verb matches with the plural 'libros' whereas I expect that if you drop the 'libros', it would be " Allí se guarda todavía mayor cantidad ". After all, 'la gente' is also used with a verb in the singular.

In English passive voice structures are used much more frequently than in Spanish . In quite a number of cases the passive voice is used to avoid the impersonal 'one', 'they', 'you', 'we' . This very sentence is a good example of this. Instead of saying 'we/ you/ one can avoid 'one' by using a passive voice you use the passive voice structure ' the passive voice can be used to avoid the impersonal 'one'. But there is no reason why a passive voice structure cannot be used in the plural.In my Spanish grammar book I found following example : 'Se resolvieron los problemas- The problems were solved'. Definitely plural.

Answer 7

do not

Answer 8

I think se guardan is passive, it's not impersonal, i think se + singular is impersonal, but se +

plural is passive, am I right?

So here, I think I have to take it as those books are kept, it's passive. Am I right?

Answer 9

mayor cantidad de libros is the subject so guardarse make it passive

sorry, this is not correct - 00494d19, Dec 14, 2011