Le di un boligrafo a mi amiga

Question

why no Yo di un boligrafo a mi amiga...since when is Le = I

bolígrafo .......... - ian-hill, Dec 4, 2011

Answer 1

?Yo di un bolígrafo a mi amiga ? I gave a pen to my friend.

I agree that the "redundant" i.o.p. is optional in this case, but it conflicts with what is taught in the lessons here and in the grammar articles on this site. I would not use them as examples without explaining that. You are going to confuse beginning students. (besides I don't think it follows customary use).

When to Use the Indirect Object Pronoun (from our Reference Library)

If there is an indirect object in a sentence, there MUST be an indirect object pronoun! You can also have the prepositional phrase "para nosotros" or "a Miguel" to add emphasis, but you can NOT only have the prepositional phrase.

I am quite unwilling to knowingly espouse misinformation. From what I understand, the example that I have given does not deviate from what is considered acceptable usage by the RAE. - Izanoni1, Dec 4, 2011

From what I understand, the dictum that "you can NOT only have the 'prepositional phrase'" not only neglects to factor in what the RAE has to say on the matter but also ignores the fact that such a construction is not at all odd to find, especially as.... - Izanoni1, Dec 4, 2011

...it pertains to written texts. In the past, I have commented on the fact that the reference section's article does not coincide with the RAE account. In my opinion, the idea that an I.O.P "must" appear when there is an indirect object in a sentence... - Izanoni1, Dec 4, 2011

...fails the basic litmus test when it comes to both (1) common usage as it appears in various texts and (2) what is deemed correct by the Academies. Personally, I feel the onus is on those who fail to take these factors into account to offer... - Izanoni1, Dec 4, 2011

...clarification or justification as to the information that they have presented. As I said before, I can only present the facts as *I* understand them. - Izanoni1, Dec 4, 2011

I wasn't arguing which is right or wrong,. just that an explanation of the discrepancy should be stated. Personally, I never like the rule given in the lessons because it conflicted with what I had already read in other artiicles, but that is neither - 0074b507, Dec 4, 2011

here no there. What is important is not to confuse people with a contradiction without explanation even if it is correct. - 0074b507, Dec 4, 2011

I see what you're getting at, and I agree regarding the importance of clearing up any contradictions. On the other hand, I never personally made mention of the reference article in question, nor did it come up in the question originally asked.... - Izanoni1, Dec 4, 2011

...that is to say that as far as my answer was concerned, a contradiction was never introduced into the equation. Based on the original question, it seemed to me that the person asking the question had very little knowledge in regards to the topic of.... - Izanoni1, Dec 4, 2011

pronouns in general, a fact that led me to believe that it might be more beneficial to give examples for comparative purposes which might elucidate the differences amongst the varying types of pronouns. From a methods standpoint, I don't find it.... - Izanoni1, Dec 4, 2011

particularly effective to teach a subject by first introducing possibly erroneous material, and then disputing that material—one reason why I never brought up our reference section. - Izanoni1, Dec 4, 2011

Then again, I also see now that you had initially posted a link to our reference section and understand why you maintain that this might come off as confusing - Izanoni1, Dec 4, 2011

Answer 2

Why not Yo di un boligrafo a mi amiga...since when does Le = I

The expression Yo di un bolígrafo a mi amiga would be an acceptable Spanish sentence, but so too would Yo le di un bolígrafo a mi amiga.

Here, the use of "le" tells us "to whom" the pen was given; namely, it was given to her (i.e. to my friend). Grammatically, we refer to this as an indirect object pronoun.

In the examples above, the pronoun "yo" is what is referred to as a subject pronoun as it refers to—you guessed it—the subject of our sentence; namely, who performs the action of giving.

In Spanish, in contrast to English, the subject of our sentence is readily apparent by the ending that the verb takes; therefore, and as Webdunce has already mentioned, the subject pronoun is generally omitted unless we wish to place some special emphasis on the subject of the sentence. For example, this is one typical effect that using the subject pronoun might have on a sentence such as ours:

?Le di un bolígrafo ? I gave her a pen
?Yo le di un bolígrafo ? I (I alone and nobody else) gave her a pen

Thoughts on the use of the indirect object pronoun "le:"
You will often find that even when the indirect object of a sentence is clearly stated (as in "a mi amiga"), we still find the verb accompanied by a "redundant" indirect object pronoun. For example, any of the following would be reasonably constructed Spanish sentences:

?Di un bolígrafo a mi amiga	?	I gave a pen to my friend.
?Le di un bolígrafo a mi amiga	?	I gave a pen to my friend.
?A mi amiga, le di un bolígrafo	?	I gave a pen to my friend
?Le di un bolígrafo	?	I gave her a pen.
?Se lo di a mi amiga	?	I gave it to my friend (here "le" takes the form "se")
?A mi amiga, se lo di	?	I gave it to my friend
?Se lo di	?	I gave it to her.

Just for illustrative purposes, we might examine the effect of including the subject pronoun (although, strictly speaking, the subject pronoun need not directly precede the verb as it does in the following examples):

?Yo di un bolígrafo a mi amiga	?	I gave a pen to my friend.
?Yo le di un bolígrafo a mi amiga	?	I gave a pen to my friend.
?A mi amiga, Yo le di un bolígrafo	?	I gave a pen to my friend
?Yo le di un bolígrafo	?	I gave her a pen.
?Yo se lo di a mi amiga	?	I gave it to my friend (here "le" takes the form "se")
?A mi amiga, Yo se lo di	?	I gave it to my friend
?Yo se lo di	?	I gave it to her.

Hi, Ira. Excellent post as usual ! :) Lo di a mi amiga is not correct - cogumela, Dec 4, 2011

Thanks, Cogu...is it the fact that it is missing the indirect object pronoun "se" that makes it objectionable? - Izanoni1, Dec 4, 2011

Is it the inclusion of the direct object pronoun that make the absence of the indirect object pronoun sound odd? - Izanoni1, Dec 4, 2011

I guess so... if you add 'lo'+ "a mi amiga" the 'se' seems mandatory, but I don't know the reason. - cogumela, Dec 4, 2011

OK. Thanks! :) - Izanoni1, Dec 4, 2011

Answer 3

"Le" is not "I" here. - it refers to the "amigo"

The "di" indicates the "I"

Answer 4

Spanish rarely actually says "Yo" in their sentences as it is easily deduced from the verb form (di = I gave).

Examples:

I hope so. = Eso espero. (Literally: That (I) hope)

I'm sorry. = Lo siento. (Literally: It (I) feel).

.

See how the "I" is built into the verb form (siento = I feel, espero = I hope)?

Answer 5

The le is what is occasionally called the "redundant" indirect object pronoun and you can read about it in this reference library article.