The "Occupy Wall Street Movement" (closed)
I am all for free speech and peaceful protests. I know this is a U.S. story, but I have actually had friends from another country visiting who asked to see what was going on.
It doesn't matter what your opinion is of this movement or any movement really. What I am frustrated with is the fact that it is costing me tax dollars, money our city really doesn't have to spend, all to clean up after the makeshift tent city was moved in our city yesterday.
[The Streets department said that 29 sanitation employees worked a total of 108 man hours and cleared almost 27 tons of trash from the Occupy Philadelphia site on the plaza.]
I passed by both places in the past few weeks. For the life of me, I can't imagine how 27 tons of trash could be accumulated or why the protesters could not clean up after themselves.
Do you have any thoughts on this or the protests?
Tents in Zuccotti Park, New York City
Clean up in front of City Hall, Philadelphia (11.30.11)
15 Answers
Sorry but you are missing the point!
Are you really worried about the cost of cleaning up a park or three?
God knows what the thing the protesters are protesting about is costing you.
TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS. and your freedom
You are "all for free speech" but don't want to pay for it.
IT COSTS!
Quick update
I've seen worse trash than that in a back garden - come to think of it - in a front garden.
Well two thoughts on this.
I don't know about Philadelphia but in New York the protestors didn't exactly have time to clear up as they were chased off by poilice in the middle of the night. As the debris being scooped up there seems to include sleeping mats and tents I should imagine the situation was similar to New York.
When police move in and clear out demonstrators in other countries, mostly with regimes the US does not support, the US media and Government are the first to come out with speeches about the right to democratic protest, free speech etc. When it happens on their own doorstep it is very different and the protestors are misguided or left wing.
It is what I call double standards.
I am also interested to note that a lot of my US friends on Facebook are amazed when they see posts I share on police behaviour etc. It seems to me that the US media is largely biased, even more so than our own.
Please understand this is was all done by design. First the very bankers that are pulling the rug from underneath our country and others are the very people who funded many of these protest groups. Why? So they can blame capitalism and bring in their solution which is a cashless society. These bankers and by bankers I do not mean your local banks I mean the top of the pyramid. This is what they do in a nutshell. First they print money of thin air. It is is just paper. Until it is lent with interest to a nation and the debt accumulates then the bankers or globalists liquidate. Its like owing the mob money but on a global level. The globalist bankers can print money out of thin air, most money is digital anyway. Then the nations owes money but obviously it can't pay it back. So the banks take over and takes the nations resources this includes people, the population. And they knew this all along. Whoever holds the power to issue money has control. So in 1913 the Fed reserve act was passed and the unconstitutional fed income tax was created. Watch the video on youtube America: Freedom to Fascism this explains it well. So anyway these globalist bankers are addicted to power and always want more. And they do not want anyone figuring this out so they go through great efforts to keep it secret but now the bubble is bursting and people are figuring it out. So they create controlled opposition and they pay groups to march with commie flags, blaming wall st and capitalism. The police are telling homeless people that if they go to the OWS they will NOT be arrested. They have caught police provocateurs in civilian clothes. The banker owned cable news networks focus on these groups the homeless and anarchists the very elements they know the American people don't like to misrepresent, to paint a picture and to shift the blame. This also create a divide and conquer mentality especially with the police who must deal with this mess day in and day out. Hoping they will crack skulls but not yet. If you think its bad now. Wait till the dollar loses more and more of its value and we have banker holiday.Then there will be lots of people who will lose their life savings overnight and the banks will be closed and the bankers will be offshore as the police and military crack skulls. This will be good hard working Americans. And who knows what they have planned. There are FEMA concentration camps with stacks of coffins stacked and waiting for civil unrest 300,000 - 400,000 foreign troops on US soil. The US military has been hijacked to fight their corporate wars. and this was paid for by tax dollars. alt text 
Your tax money goes to paying the national debt then the bankers lend more money for the nations needs such as infrastructure. They can print more money.
[The Streets department said that 29 sanitation employees worked a total of 108 man hours and cleared almost 27 tons of trash from the Occupy Philadelphia site on the plaza.] So do you think the police will allow the protestors to provide themselves dumpsters. Of course not. The city will make more $$$ this way. Why let protestors clean up for free when the city can charge? Plus the corporate media presstitutes can focus on the filth that way when they unleash their bioweapon virus on the OWS and blame their filth and as it spreads they will round people up for their own good of course. You can start your own protest. Out of all the evil, crooked, genocidal wasteful garbage your precious tax money is being spent on. You are somehow going to wake up from your television induced fluorinated trance because of some trash. Fox and Friends. Sounds like you are parroting the corporate media. Do you believe in overpopulation and global warming? Big government? That the constitution is bad? Its a psyop. Its mass mind control. Its the devil. And people are waking up. The Alex Jones show. John Perkins "Confessions of an Economic Hitman". William Cooper. Charlotte Iserbyt "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America" Fritz Springmeier. And people are figuring it out. Soon everyone will know the truth, but will it be too late? Its quite an awakening and everyday it is snowballing. End the Fed Vote Ron Paul while we still have a chance to vote our way out of this corporate holocaust. Or you could take the blue pill.
Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else, you were born into bondage, born inside a prison that you cannot smell, taste, or touch. A prison for your mind. (long pause, sighs) Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself. This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. (In his left hand, Morpheus shows a blue pill.) Morpheus: You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. (a red pill is shown in his other hand) You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes. (Long pause; Neo begins to reach for the red pill) Remember -- all I am offering is the truth, nothing more. (Neo takes the red pill and swallows it with a glass of water)
I agree that many of them are protesting crony capitalism. Interestingly, many of the people who disdain the occupy the wall street movement also are fed up with crony capitalism. The only people that support crony capitalism are crony capitalists. Many of the protestors have been interviewed on television and exposed for not knowing why they were there. On the other hand, I would acknowledge that many of them do know why they are there.
Violence against an 84 year old and a pregnant woman in Seattle, this report is from the Daily Mail, a paper that is renowned in Britain for being right wing so hardly likely to colour a report in favour of the protesters. Do these people look like violent radicals to you
While I am generally sympathetic to the "occupy" movements, I also fear they are expressing a "culture of entitlement" to excess. For example, they feel entitled to leave behind tons of trash and let the city pay for it. Who do they think "the city" is... it's us taxpayers!
Of course much of what the city calls "trash" is camping gear that these folks were forced to abandon while they expressed their right to be arrested for their occupation. I see lots of non-trash in this photo, and still some items that were probably taken from nearby alleys trash piles (like that blue wooden "skid" at the bottom-right).
The problem with the occupy wall street movement is that many of the protestors cannot even explain why they are there. Does this mean some of them are being paid?
Why let protestors clean up for free
Jeeeeez, this thread is closed, sorry.
No it means there are an awful lot of things to protest about, Ooops I said I wouldn't say any more. - MaryMcc 7 mins ago
There certainly are a lot of things worthy of protesting for in this world Mary! And don't worry about not saying anymore. That is why I love the "General Discussions" category. It is perfectly fine to have a spirited debate as long as we remain respectful and friendly. I love hearing what your thoughts are. 
What is interesting to me after reading some of your thoughts, as well as Ian's, is that on an individual basis, people from other countries seem to like Americans. But as a whole, there seems to be frustration and even a little anger. Am I right about this assessment?
If I am, it doesn't offend me in the least. I just find it interesting.
Mary said:
I am also interested to note that a lot of my US friends on Facebook are amazed when they see posts I share on police behaviour etc. It seems to me that the US media is largely biased, even more so than our own.
I know the media can be biased and I understand that our friends in other countries have certain unfavorable opinions about the U.S. But I am speaking as someone who has not only walked around and through these encampments, but also someone who has many friends and family in the police department.
I'm sure there have been frustrations on both sides. All I can say is that as an eyewitness, while I was there, the police were more than respectful as they stood guard at various parts of the park in NYC and the plaza in Philadelphia. We spoke with the police while we were there. None of them even so much as complained.
The police moved in on the protesters in my city only when it was 52 hours past the city's notice for them to relocate. They weren't asked to stop....just to relocate. What else is not being discussed is the fact that some police have also been injured in the process.
Mary said:
I don't know about Philadelphia but in New York the protestors didn't exactly have time to clear up as they were chased off by poilice in the middle of the night. As the debris being scooped up there seems to include sleeping mats and tents I should imagine the situation was similar to New York.
I understand what you are saying here Mary. But in Philadelphia, the protesters were given a warning of several days that they would have to relocate due to long standing renovations to the Plaza they were occupying. They were warned.
In addition, if you clean up after yourselves on a daily (or at least regular basis), not to mention figure out a way to avoid public urination, the problem wouldn't have been so massive.
I do believe in the right to free speech. I am totally respectful of the fact that a tent city was set up in my city. However, after walking through both Philly and NYC, I think individuals within these groups were not being respectful to the citizens of either city with the way they trashed both areas. Of course, I'm sure there were some who did clean up after themselves. To those people I say...."Go for it!"
Pesta said:
Of course much of what the city calls "trash" is camping gear that these folks were forced to abandon while they expressed their right to be arrested for their occupation. I see lots of non-trash in this photo, and still some items that were probably taken from nearby alleys trash piles (like that blue wooden "skid" at the bottom-right).
Here are some other things left behind:
The city has cited graffiti, public urination, people smoking in tents and other issues among its concerns with the encampment.
Clean up crews Monday morning also say they found hypodermic needles among the trash left behind by Occupy members.
When the unions entered the fray, it became a charade of one entity heavily influenced by organized crime protesting against another entity heavily influenced by organized crime. Pretty much just a lightening rod to distract people so they can keep on raking in the bucks. It is in many ways similar to the Tea Party movement, and most people in the two factions don't have anything coherent to say once they get past a few slogans. Both groups remind me of Kevin James saying "appeaser" over and over again without seeming to know what it meant.
Maria said:
The problem with the occupy wall street movement is that many of the protestors cannot even explain why they are there. Does this mean some of them are being paid?
That was one of the most fascinating things to me as I walked through the tent cities. The groups weren't as large as you might think. Also, there were definitely people protesting against the 1%....or the wealthy/big corporations. However, there were equal numbers of people protesting an assortment of causes including gay marriage, the environment, anti-war sentiments,etc.
In my honest opinion, I don't think anyone was paid. The majority appeared to be in their early twenties. But although the media does focus on the greed of big corporations as the reason for the movement, to me, it seemed that it was a gathering for people fed up with a whole host of issues.
Again...I'm not arguing their right to protest or speak out. I'm only asking if individuals who are asking others, including the government to respect their rights and ideas to in turn, respect the rights of other citizens to be able to use public transportation, the Brooklyn Bridge, etc....and to also clean up after themselves. 
