Noun-adjective-noun constructions. Wrong? Why?

Question

"¿Tiene su carro nuevo problemas de alineamiento?"

"¿Tienen sus libros usados valor sentimental?"

"¿Presenta su plomería recién instalada problemas de goteras?

Someone told me they felt these were wrong...they said that using a noun-adjective-noun sequence like these "sounds" unnatural. Is that so? I don't see it, but I could be wrong. Thanks in advance.

Answer 1

so now I am utterly confused over what adjectives mean when placed in a different location (i.e. before or after the noun).

After is used for distinguishing, before for giving a characteristic. The common example is:

mi hermosa esposa = my beautiful wife

mi esposa hermosa = my wife who is beautiful (as opposed to my other wives)

There are specific adjectives where the usage before is figurative rather than literal. The common example is:

mi viejo amigo = my old friend--we've been friends for a long time

mi amigo viejo = my old friend--my friend is an old man

nice :) - Kiwi-Girl, Nov 9, 2011

Answer 2

I have held off on answering your question, but you have only one response so far, so I will write a quick thought.

I do not believe that the noun+adjective+noun structure is wrong per se, but it does not seem to be the natural speech pattern of native speakers. Native English speakers would say it because that is a common word order in English. Native Spanish speakers, on the other hand, do not seem to use that word order; there seems to be a preference to put the subject at the end in this type of structure. Is it to avoid the noun+adjective+noun word order? I cannot say. Sometimes structures are the preferred usage just because that is the way it is!

Answer 3

Professor Jason does a pretty good job with this subject...check him out.

Adjective Placement in Spanish

Thanks Matt, nice one :) - Kiwi-Girl, Nov 10, 2011

Answer 4

Another helpful article re adjective placement

When placed after a noun, the adjective tends to add a somewhat objective meaning, while placed before it provides often provides an emotional or subjective meaning.

Answer 5

I don't mean to doubt you Kiwi_Girl but this site http://www.dur.ac.uk/m.p.thompson/adjectives.htm

says una moto nueva (brand-new) and una nueva moto (a replacement)

so now I am utterly confused over what adjectives mean when placed in a different location (i.e. before or after the noun).

Please will anyone clarify? Thank you so much.

And very sorry to JsandersAmig for posting in his thread. This is in reply to what Kiwi_Girl posted as a reply to you, and doesn't fit in the comments box.

You are absolutely right, thanks Mathslover, that's what I get for trying to post too quickly - fingers going faster than brain, never a good thing, thanx for the catch :) - - Kiwi-Girl, Nov 9, 2011

Answer 6

It depends on what you want to say, the choice of wording can be a matter of emphasis - I'm not sure of the grammatical rule but I would be inclined to say for the first one -

Tiene problemas de alineamiento su carro nuevo?

• bear in mind too that adjective placement can give a different nuance,

(edit gracias a Mathslover )

• nuevo carro - brand new, newly acquired

• carro nuevo, newly made

and although in your example the number and gender of the nouns is different showing where you want the adjective applied in some instances your word order could lead to misunderstanding.

for example

Tiene sus carros nuevos problemas de alineamiento?

could mean

Do your cars have new problems of alignment.

Or do your new cars have problems of alignment.

Whereas

Tiene problemas de alineamiento sus carros nuevos? - removes any ambiguity.

I am wondering if your example with "bicicletas" and "problemas" is not quite accurate, since "nuevas" would agree with "bicicletasa' and "nuevos" would agree with "problemas" - mountaingirl123, Nov 8, 2011

oops - I am a poor typist - I meant to type "bicicletas"...sorry! - mountaingirl123, Nov 8, 2011

lol quite right, thanx :) - Kiwi-Girl, Nov 8, 2011

Answer 7

This site makes some good points

An adjective following a noun distinguishes that item from others that may have different qualities.

Putting an adjective before a noun implies that the quality expressed is naturally associated with that noun. Rather than describing the noun in order to differentiate it from others, the adjective merely attaches an unsurprising epithet to it.

The overall balance of the phrase may also be a significant factor in the placing of an adjective. For example, more than one adjective or an adjective modified by an adverb may produce an awkward construction if all placed before the noun (or at least one that is marked for special emphasis or stylistic effect):

1) Non-differentiating adjective before noun

• el hermoso paisaje del Sáhara

2) Still non-differentiating, but putting three words between the article and the noun makes the structure slightly awkward

• el duro y hermoso paisaje del Sáhara

3) The non-differentiating principle is lost in favour of a more comfortable construction

• el paisaje duro y hermoso del Sáhara

Answer 8

Thank you so much lorenzo9, I am guessing there will be exceptions to the rule (there always seems to be), but your explanations definitely cleared the air for me.