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Very few people seldom do.

Very few people seldom do.

14
votes

Hi everyone!

Tonight, I came across this sentence which I could not understand.

You can say that, but very few people seldom do.

It's supposed to mean something like "Most people don't do that", but to me, it means exactly the opposite. How it can mean "most people don't do that" is over my head.

Isn't this a double negation? Is it a expression you are familiar with? Is it something common to say? What does it mean?

Thank you in advance!

6730 views
updated Jan 3, 2012
posted by cogumela
muy buena pregunta, me hizo pensar un rato, jeje , como nos pusimos a hablar, no le di al post, pero eso pensaba, que sonaba mal, como se ve, tu nivel va cada vez mejor:) A ver si vienes al próximo chat - 00494d19, Nov 3, 2011
Wow, what a badly written sentence! Quita la palabra 'seldom' y esta bien. Interjecting "seldom" is both reduntant and confusing. - Jeremias, Nov 3, 2011

18 Answers

7
votes

I think it's a horrible sentence; it may be grammatically viable but I don't think it expresses what the speaker intended.

I'm not sure I can explain why, but look -

If one says "but very few people seldom do", it surely means (literally) the same as ..."but many people frequently do", when what I think the speaker hopes to impress upon the person they are addressing is "It would be rare for anybody to say this/people generally don't say this."

Taking a slightly different example:

"Very few people seldom brush their teeth".

That surely means that most people brush their teeth often.

If one wants to give all of the information, ie that there are few people who brush their teeth, and those that do, seldom do it - I don't think a valid shortcut exists.

It does seem like a double negative in the aspect that it actually doesn't mean what the speaker intends. even though from context we may as native speakers be able to make sense of it.

Hope that helps. smile

updated Jan 3, 2012
posted by galsally
Mil gracias, Sally. Siempre me encanta recibir tu opinión sobre estas cosas. :) - cogumela, Nov 3, 2011
No hay de que, Cogu. Siempre es un placer poder ayudarte, Ojalá que en el futuro tenga más tiempo libre. :) - galsally, Nov 4, 2011
6
votes

You can say that, but very few people do....... and even then only seldom.

The way they have it worded is really silly and shouldn't be worded like that.

updated Nov 3, 2011
edited by jeezzle
posted by jeezzle
The way you phrased it makes sense to me. Gracias, Jeezz. - cogumela, Nov 2, 2011
Asi que te gusto despues de todo, lo sabia. - jeezzle, Nov 2, 2011
Por supuesto, corazón .¿Acaso lo dudabas? - cogumela, Nov 2, 2011
I agree completely, it is definitely a clunky expression - Izanoni1, Nov 2, 2011
I agree too. It's a terrible sentence that makes no sense to me. - Goyo, Nov 2, 2011
6
votes

The sentence is wrong sounding because "Seldom " is superfluous"

take away that word and it is fine .

updated Nov 3, 2011
posted by ray76
perfectamente correcta mi amigo :) - amykay, Nov 2, 2011
¡El don siempre tiene razón! - 005faa61, Nov 2, 2011
I would not even say "very " . "You can say that , but few people do " I find in English less is best , and also so much more is inferred in the sentence. - ray76, Nov 2, 2011
Thank you very much, Ray :) - cogumela, Nov 3, 2011
5
votes

Hi Cogu

This a great question but do you realise why? I am willing to bet that the majority of native English speakers here had to read the phrase more than once before offering a response. So it is no wonder that you were confused.

Edit:

For my part I only had to read it once.

I found it too difficult to answer so I moved onto the next question.

updated Nov 3, 2011
edited by Eddy
posted by Eddy
I've re-read it about 10x so far and I am still working on my response! - pintor, Nov 3, 2011
Muchas gracias, Eddy :) - cogumela, Nov 3, 2011
Yes I head to read itia few times also to get the subtle meaning...I think I'm still trying to wrap my head around it... - amykay, Nov 3, 2011
5
votes

Few people and seldom are somewhat logically overlapping limiters.

I won't repeat what most have said so well on this thread, but it reminds me a bit of the way the famous Yogi Berra expressed himself.

Yogi Berra, the famed New York Yankees' catcher, once said “90 percent of baseball is half mental." smile

updated Nov 3, 2011
posted by pesta
Thank you Pesta! :) Good example, however I'd have understood Yogi Berra's ironic sentence perfectly. - cogumela, Nov 3, 2011
5
votes

I agree with those who say it sounds wrong, it is a clunky sentence. It may be grammatically correct, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. Another way to state the same thing would be:

You can say that, but very few people seldom do.

You can say that, but very few people "hardly ever" do.

Better:

"People almost never say things like that".

"Hardly anyone talks like that."

updated Nov 3, 2011
posted by amykay
More good examples :) - Izanoni1, Nov 2, 2011
muchas gracias maestro! - amykay, Nov 2, 2011
Hehe Amy, in England 'almost never' sounds a bit odd, although it's finding its way here. I'd say 'hardly ever'. :) - galsally, Nov 3, 2011
Gracias, Amy :) - cogumela, Nov 3, 2011
4
votes

Consensus:

The sentence is clumsy, it sounds much better without the word seldom. Otherwise, it sounds confusing.

¡Muchas gracias a todos!

updated Nov 4, 2011
posted by cogumela
3
votes

Hi Cogu smile When I read the title of the thread I thought "huh? who said that?". I think that it sounds really awkward but ... we all say these kinds of things from time to time even in our own language, right?

Yogi Berra, the famed New York Yankees' catcher, once said “90 percent of baseball is half mental."

I love that LOL

updated Nov 3, 2011
posted by patch
Hello Pat! :) - galsally, Nov 3, 2011
Hi, Patch! :) RIght! - cogumela, Nov 3, 2011
I agree - An English football manager once said "If we had scored more goals we would have won" :) - ian-hill, Nov 3, 2011
3
votes

I wouldn't say that it is a double negative, but it certainly is an oddly constructed sentence which is at best ambiguous and at worst is so obfuscated that it takes away from the idea it was meant to express.

Breaking the sentence down you have:

?Very few people do ? A small number of people do
?How often does this small number of people do it? They seldom do it

So in essence, a small number of people perform this action on rare occasions.

The reason this phrase might come off as ambiguous is because of the inferences that might be made given such a statement. For example, if a small number of people do it infrequently, does that mean that (a) the larger proportion of the population do it more frequently or that (b) they never do it?

I agree that this could probably be said a lot more clearly with something like:

You can say that,...

...but very few people ever do.

...but it's rare to find anyone who does.

...but you're not likely to find many people who will.

...but most people don't.

...but there are not many people who do.

etc.

updated Nov 3, 2011
edited by Izanoni1
posted by Izanoni1
Line 7: "Come of" should be "come off" - Goyo, Nov 2, 2011
Iza, wonderful and reasoned answer like usual, thanks a lot. - cogumela, Nov 3, 2011
That's exactly the reason because I find it nonsensical ( in both, English and Spanish, I must add). You want to give information about "the larger proportion of people", and you don't even refer to it ( ? ) - cogumela, Nov 3, 2011
Sometimes, you can refer to something directly or not. You can say: Most people do, or few people do that. But by adding the seldom, the sentence becomes too blurred and convoluted. - cogumela, Nov 3, 2011
convoluted? oh my goodness Cogu your English is getting scary ja ja :) - Kiwi-Girl, Nov 3, 2011
intrincado? - Kiwi-Girl, Nov 3, 2011
I enjoy your English, Iza. - cogumela, Nov 3, 2011
3
votes

You can say that, but very few people seldom do.

I can't agree with Julian - the above sentence is odd indeed but it is not a double negative.

To understand it one has to say it in another way.

You can say that - but very few people do - and then only rarely - or - and then not often.

updated Nov 2, 2011
posted by ian-hill
Thanks Ian! :) You added a bit of controversy here - cogumela, Nov 2, 2011
Wonderful observation, Ian! - Izanoni1, Nov 2, 2011
2
votes

Cogu, It is an expression used a lot here in Ireland. So unless you are coming to visit me, I don't think you will here it much. But at least now you have learned it raspberry

updated Nov 3, 2011
posted by dewclaw
Really!? - cogumela, Nov 3, 2011
2
votes

Lose "very few". This is an unusual error for a native speaker to make. "People seldom do" means they rarely/almost never do. That renders "very few" redundant.

These sentences have very similar meanings" Very few people do"
"People seldom do." It's pointless doubling the same meaning hence my use of the term "redundant".

It suggests that the individual was a confused person, maybe stoned?

updated Nov 3, 2011
posted by lagartijaverde
2
votes

Well seldom = rarely, so it's not negative.

Very few people seldom do = most people usually do.

It's not a mistake grammatically but it's probably not what the person meant to say.

You can say it but..

few people do.

people seldom do.

updated Nov 3, 2011
posted by rabbitwho
Thanks rabbit! :) - cogumela, Nov 3, 2011
"very seldom" and "few people" are both limiters - and if you put a limit on a limit, doesn't that push the meaning toward the positive? - pesta, Nov 3, 2011
That is pretty much what I said it sounded like... =D Good point, pesta! - NikkiLR, Nov 3, 2011
2
votes

I don't know where you found this, Cogu but I am wondering if the writer was trying to find the best sentence construction to express the thought and didn't edit it carefully before sending. Because either of the following sound o.k.;-

You can say that, but very few people do.

You can say that, but people seldom do.

In other words this clumsy sentence is in my opinion a "typo".

updated Nov 3, 2011
posted by pintor
Thanks pintor. You can be right :) - cogumela, Nov 3, 2011
2
votes

Eddy said:

This a great question but do you realise why? I am willing to bet that the majority of >native English speakers here had to read the phrase more than once before offering >a response. So it is no wonder that you were confused.

Spot on there Eddy! I read it a couple of times before the penny dropped.

Cogu:

The fact that you are even asking these questions shows how much your English has improved! Muy bien amiga mia grin

By the way, the idioms (in England anyway)..... 'spot on' = 'you are correct, I totally agree'.

'the penny dropped' = 'to understand, ie I belatedly understood what others may have already known'

Take care

updated Nov 3, 2011
edited by billygoat
posted by billygoat
:) Thanks a lot billy! - cogumela, Nov 3, 2011