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Game: Those pronominal, non-reflexive, verbs

Game: Those pronominal, non-reflexive, verbs

19
votes

I'm posting this thread because, lately, I've seen a lot of confusion about what a reflexive action is.

It's very common to think that in Spanish, every verb that takes a pronoun (me/te/se/nos/os/se) is a reflexive one. This is certainly an inaccurate idea, which, I think, would be convenient to get rid of for a better understanding of the Spanish language. On the other hand, it's fair to say that many actions usually not associated with reflexivity (decir, tocar, besar, cantar, escribir) can be turned into reflexive if I do them to myself.

There are thousands and thousands of Spanish verbs that are pronominal, but not reflexive. Some examples are:

Me llamo cogumela - My name is cogumela

Me he dedicidido a poner este hilo- I've finally decided to post this thread

Me imagino que lo encontraréis útil- I guess you will find it to be useful


The aim of this game is:

1.Find a pronominal verb that you like in Spanish and make sure you understand its meaning.

2.Post a sentence using the proper pronominal construction. Warning: Your sentence mustn't be reflexive in any case!!!, so check that the subject does not perform the action to himself.

Careful if you are using a "Se" pronoun. In this case, double-check to make sure that you are not using passive with "Se", nor reciprocal "Se", nor impersonal "Se".

3.If you can, tell us what's the difference between the pronominal verb you're using and the respective one that doesn't take the pronoun.

4.Post the English translation, and pictures if you want. (If your translation includes the words myself, yourself, ourselves.. likely, you'll be sent to the dunce corner for awhile) smile

5.Have fun!!!

16171 views
updated Nov 11, 2011
edited by cogumela
posted by cogumela
"lately" lawl, don't you mean constantly and for eternity? - Fredbong, Oct 21, 2011
inaccurate (not unaccurate) -Hola, cogu - pesta, Oct 21, 2011
Oh!! :) I always make the same mistake. It must be the third time I write this. Thank you, Pesta! :) - cogumela, Oct 21, 2011
Really good question about a very confusing matter. Good fun to try and get advise. Thanks cogumela. - annierats, Oct 21, 2011
me llamo Luis, for example, sound perfectly reflexive. Me llamo - "I call myself". Is it possible to explain why this is not reflexive? I'm having a bit of a hard time with the application of the pronomial . - ljmc, Oct 21, 2011
@ljmc this article will hopefully help: http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/204091/me-llamo-i-call-myself - Kiwi-Girl, Oct 21, 2011
Great idea Cogu, well done :) - Kiwi-Girl, Oct 21, 2011
Mustn't, musn't or mus'n't? - Jeremias, Oct 21, 2011
I'll have to fold on this one. - katydew, Oct 21, 2011
Hi Cogu....instead of throwing this thread, it should be posting this thread (throwing doesn't work here...)....also, which, I think, would be convenient (it is not needed...).... :) - 001a2987, Oct 21, 2011
wow, great expression, katy, wonderful - 00494d19, Oct 21, 2011
Thank you, Jeremías and Chris!! Ijmc, I hope that article clarifies the issue: "I call to myself". - cogumela, Oct 21, 2011
yay great thread, I have trouble with these. I need to go out now, but when I get back I'll be giving this a go :) - billygoat, Oct 22, 2011

54 Answers

6
votes

Se puso muy enojado cuando se dio cuenta de que se le olvidaron los numeros.

He became very angry when he realized that the numbers slipped his mind.

Se puso - pronominal. Ponerse: to become.

Se dio cuenta de: pronominal. Darse cuenta de: to realize/ to become aware of.

Se le olvidaron: pronominal (accidental se construction). Olvidarse: to forget.

updated Oct 25, 2011
edited by macapi
posted by macapi
Ponerse (enojado) o enojarse. Excelente. Very good, macapi! :) - cogumela, Oct 21, 2011
"Darse cuenta de" is pronominal also, not reflexive. The same for "Olvidarse". Three hits - cogumela, Oct 21, 2011
Thank you. - macapi, Oct 21, 2011
Wow, Macapi -- you sure set the bar high for the rest of us poor beginners!! - territurtle, Oct 21, 2011
5
votes

Temerse- to be afraid, to suspect, to believe

Me temo que no vendrá- I'm afraid that he won't come, I suspect that he might not come

Me temo que va a llover - I'm afraid (I believe) it's going to rain.


Temer- to be afraid of, feeling fear

Mis enemigos me temen - My enemies are afraid of me

Les temo a los perros / Temo a los perros Me temo a los perros- I’m afraid of dogs

updated Oct 26, 2011
edited by cogumela
posted by cogumela
5
votes

Transitive levantar: to lift something.

Ella Levantó el libro - she lifted the book.

Pronominal reflexive levantarse: to get up (in the morning)

Me levanto a las siete - I get up at seven.

Pronominal levantarse: to rise/ to stand.

La torre se levanta por encima de los demás edificios: the tower rises/stands above the other buildings.

updated Oct 26, 2011
posted by macapi
Really impressive! :) Excellent - cogumela, Oct 21, 2011
Excuse my questioning, but I thought levantarse was a reflexive verb - me levanto; I stand myself up. Is this wrong? or is it possible for levantar to be both reflexive and pronominal? - ljmc, Oct 21, 2011
the trick is understanding that it isn't so much that there are reflexive verbs (although you'll find many articles that call them that) but instead there are pronominal verbs which may or may not be used reflexively - Kiwi-Girl, Oct 21, 2011
so yes as macapi stated above 'levantarse' when used reflexively means 'to get up' but you can use the same pronominal verb (levantarse) to mean 'to rise or to stand' and it's not reflexive at all, after all the tower didn't stand itself up. :) - Kiwi-Girl, Oct 21, 2011
Ok great. thanks for the advice - ljmc, Oct 21, 2011
Thanks MC a very helpful perspective on understanding pronominal verbs LjmC also asked the question I was wanting to ask/know th answer to :) - FELIZ77, Oct 21, 2011
kewl bananas :) - Kiwi-Girl, Oct 21, 2011
5
votes

@Annie:

Mi casa está en venta pero no se vende.

Tricky!

It's normal to be confused. SE has a lot of meanings in Spanish.

That's reflexive?

No, this sentence is not reflexive because the house does not sell itself. The house does not perform any action on itself.

To ilustrate how tricky this can be, I will tell you that the first time I read your sentence, this is what my mind read:

My house is for sale, but it's not for sale.

Mi casa está en venta pero no se vende

this is a perfect example of impersonal SE, but obviously, it gives us a perfect nonsensical sentence, so my mind said: Huh!?, and it reinterpretated the sentence to:

Mi house is for sale, but it is not (easily) sold.

I don't manage to sell it, to sell it is not easy, I can't find a buyer

This is another possible interpretation of the same sentence, and it seems to me that it makes more sense this way. In this case, the SE is the sign of a passive sentence with se, which would be equivalent to:

Mi casa está en venta, pero no es vendida (fácilmente). (No es vendida = No se vende, no consigo venderla)

Neither of these se really belongs to the verb. The verb you used in this sentence is just: Vender.

Anyway, this one seems to be designed for being tricky, don't worry. smile

updated Oct 24, 2011
posted by cogumela
Thank you cogumela, I understood themeaning but I've never understood this expectation of things selling themselves. Thanks. - annierats, Oct 22, 2011
In English, we might say, "My house is for sale, but it's not selling" - that's perfect English, and a near-perfect equivalent, no? - pesta, Oct 24, 2011
Yes, we say that all the time in the current economic climate.. - annierats, Oct 24, 2011
4
votes

Parecerse a - to take after

Aunque tiene los ojos azules de su madre, se parece más a su padre.

Even though he has his mother’s blue eyes, he takes after his father more.

alt text

Parecer- to look, to look like, to seem

Parecen simpáticos- They seem nice

updated Nov 4, 2011
edited by cogumela
posted by cogumela
muy bien :) - billygoat, Oct 26, 2011
Jejejeje, when it's funny, it's easier to remember for me:) - migelis, Oct 26, 2011
Me too, cogu. I might even remeber this one, it's very good. - annierats, Nov 4, 2011
4
votes

Esforzarse = to make an effort, to strive

Se esfuerza por aprender español - He makes an effort to learn Spanish

It can be followed by several prepositions: se esfuerza en, se esfuerza para

Esfuerza por aprender español

alt text

The verb esforzar is so unusual that it's really hard to think of an example to give. I decided not to do it, it would be useless. I don't think I have used this verb in all my life. In many cases, it's synonym of forzar.

updated Oct 25, 2011
edited by cogumela
posted by cogumela
esfuerzo la voz. I strain my voice - billygoat, Oct 23, 2011
Your example is correct, Billy. However I think I'd say "forzar la voz" instead. - cogumela, Oct 24, 2011
esforzarse por hacer- to endeavour to.. sin esforzar, without effort. It was an effort to find these examples! - annierats, Oct 24, 2011
4
votes

Asomarse a = lo lean out of, to have a look out

Si me asomo a la ventana, veo el cielo lleno de estrellas

If I look out the window, I can see the sky full of stars.

Si asomo a la ventana


The non-pronominal form slightly changes the meaning

Asomar = to show, to stick out from

updated Oct 25, 2011
posted by cogumela
4
votes

Me voy.

English: I'm heading for Dunce's Corner

Probably 'me voy a dunce's corner'. I only put it there because people say it all the tiem, yet IR is not reflexive. (Surely?)

Kindly just delete and send me to the Island of Apoya, if necessary, I can't be the only person wondering about this. Sorry about this cogumela, at least it will get the ball rolling for more advanced students. I realize I'm being dim.

updated Oct 25, 2011
posted by annierats
Pronomial ir is "leaving". Me voy means I'm leaving... Is there still room in the corner? :) - pesta, Oct 21, 2011
Hey, annie, you had more courage than I did.. that counts for a lot. :) - pesta, Oct 21, 2011
You know something Pesta, those monks wear orange all the time, that will now be my punishment, orange robes forever. - annierats, Oct 21, 2011
Annie, superb. :) Well done! - cogumela, Oct 21, 2011
Oh, I'm quite stunned1 Thank you, I felt very stupid. - annierats, Oct 21, 2011
4
votes

Don't use reflexive verbs like these

Mi vecino lava su coche dos veces cada semana.

My neighbor washes his car two times every week.

lavar - to wash, pronomial verb, not reflexive

lavarse - reflexive

Me lavo los dientes tres veces cada día.

I brush my teeth three times a day.

updated Oct 24, 2011
edited by sanlee
posted by sanlee
Me lavo is not valid for this game, since it's pronominal and reflexive. You brush your own teeth. Your sentence has no mistakes, though :) - cogumela, Oct 21, 2011
OK thanks, I don't get it then. I will delete. - sanlee, Oct 21, 2011
Noooo, you don't need to do so!!! No problem, sanlee!!! It will help everybody to see the not valid examples too. - cogumela, Oct 21, 2011
Ok, this is not the way to do it. - sanlee, Oct 21, 2011
Today I have learned how NOT to do something on SD. Thanks sanlee.... ;o) I'm clueless on this one. - katydew, Oct 21, 2011
Me, too... - sanlee, Oct 21, 2011
Me too , I need to study up on this.. - jennyo45, Oct 22, 2011
Join us. We can start a study group. - sanlee, Oct 22, 2011
Don't worry, Sanlee. Seeing this is helping me...I think. Sign me up for the study group. - MLucie, Oct 24, 2011
4
votes

Tirarse de - to jump from

A mí me gusta tirarme del trampolín al agua.

I like to jump into water from a springboard.

alt text

updated Oct 22, 2011
edited by migelis
posted by migelis
Another perfect example! "Tirarse de" Tiny corrections: tirarse "del", as trampolín needs the definite article, and mí (tonic pronoun--> tilde) Good job, migelis! - cogumela, Oct 21, 2011
Thank you very much, Cogumela:) - migelis, Oct 22, 2011
3
votes

Inspired by Juanes: fíjate bien

Fijarse: to pay attention, to watch carefully

¡Fíjate bien dónde pisas!- Mind where you tread


Fijar: to fix

updated Nov 6, 2011
edited by cogumela
posted by cogumela
:D Isn't this great? Thanks, Cogu:) - migelis, Nov 4, 2011
Juanes me encanta. :) Yo diría 'Mind where you tread/walk', sin la 'you'. "Mind you" quiere decir algo como 'sin embargo, en cambio o aunque' a mi parecer. - galsally, Nov 5, 2011
También, si se coloca 'mind you' al final de la oración, entonces quiere decir 'dicho eso'. Es verdad, cuesta bastante encontrar la traducción adecuada. :) - galsally, Nov 5, 2011
Gracias, Sally! :) - cogumela, Nov 6, 2011
3
votes

Reírse de algo - to laugh 'at' something / make fun of something

No me gusta que te rías de mí

Reírse - to laugh, difficult to put your finger on the difference between reírse and reír, any info gratefully accepted

Me reí mucho en la película.

Mi hermana se estaba riendo a carcajadas

Reír - to laugh

No me puedo controlar de reir.

(Es) Mejor reír que llorar.

alt text

updated Oct 26, 2011
edited by Kiwi-Girl
posted by Kiwi-Girl
ps reírse de can also be used in the sense of 'making fun of someone' and here's a little more about reír vs reírse from Laz - http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/174743/reir-vs-reirse - Kiwi-Girl, Oct 21, 2011
You are using two pronominal verbs here: "reírse" and "controlarse". Both are correct. Well done!!! :) - cogumela, Oct 21, 2011
"Reírse de" was not used in none of your sentences, and it would mean, indeed, "making fun of st/sb" - cogumela, Oct 21, 2011
thanks Cogu, I've added one now, I am finding it hard to find an explanantion for the difference between reírse and reír though, any ideas? - Kiwi-Girl, Oct 21, 2011
@ cogumela = I think you meant "not used in ANY of your sentences ..." - territurtle, Oct 21, 2011
Yes, terri, that's what I meant! Thank you :) (Unfortunately I can't edit my comment) - cogumela, Oct 22, 2011
Kiwi, the difference in meaning is very, very subtle. But there is a big one concerning to their use:" reír" is a seldom used verb in Spanish, whilst "reírse" is very common. - cogumela, Oct 22, 2011
Your first example is perfect, but, in the last example you gave, you are not using "reír" as a verb, rather it's a noun. An example would be: "Reí a carcajadas", that is technically correct, but something really unusual to hear. :) - cogumela, Oct 22, 2011
3
votes

@Billy:

Don't worry, Billy. The thing is: to be afraid both in English and Spanish, can be used in two senses:

1- to feel fear of something, to be frightened by something- I'm afraid of snakes

In this sense - you would use the non-pronominal version in Spanish: temer , that is:

Les temo a las serpientes, or temo a las serpientes. Me temo a las serpientes

2- to suspect, or to believe something- To be afraid (that) [clause]

I'm afraid (that) I won't be able to explain myself.

Me temo que no seré capaz de explicarme.

In Spanish, you would use the pronominal version for this second meaning: temerse (que). And, like in English, it usually takes a clause to express what you think. Here, although you use the word "afraid", you don't really fear of anything, this is just a polite way to express : I think that, it seems to me that...

I can't understand whether the pronominal version (ie temerse) should be used after the conjunction 'que'.

Yes! Normally, temerse will be followed by que, when trying to express "I'm afraid (that)....". On the contrary, temer can be followed by a, when it means "to be afraid of": les temo a las arañas, by an infinitive:temo enfermar, or by que: temo que enfermes.

is there a rule when the 'se' should be used?

Sense 1- Use "temer"

Sense 2- Use "temerse que"

I've been looking at lots of example sentences on another website 123 Spanish, Shouldn't there either be a 'me' in both or none of them?

From 123 Spanish: Yo temía que él la rompiera

Actually, this sentence sounds a bit clumsy, red face It means that you actually were scared by the prospect of... In other words- Tenía miedo de que lo rompiera (subjunctive)

But, if you wanted to express: I thought he would break it, then --> Me temía que la rompería / Me temía que la iba a romper/ Creí que la iba a romper (indicative)

also Yo temía que él la rompiera. is subjunctive. What is the difference between this and your sentence Me temo que no vendrá- which is indicative?

We use indicative to declare. A declaration is something that you think, something that you believe. Since "Me temía que" is equivalent "I thought that", it must be followed by the indicative, because what you think is = declaration.

Me temo que ... (indicative clause)

Temo que, on the other hand, is not an equivalent of "I believe", and it usually takes the subjunctive:

Juana teme que su madre padezca de diabetes.

Juana fears that her mother will suffer from diabetes.

Disclaimer: languages are flexible, so don't take this as a perfect and infallible rule.

updated Oct 25, 2011
edited by cogumela
posted by cogumela
This is great, Cogu!!!:) - migelis, Oct 25, 2011
Cogu that was absolutely wonderful. You are such a fantastic teacher. Finally I think this is even starting to sink into my thick head lol. Thank you so much my friend, you are a treasure :) - billygoat, Oct 25, 2011
3
votes

La leche se convierte en el queso después del proceso de fermentación.

Milk turns into cheese after the process of fermentation.

alt text

updated Oct 23, 2011
edited by migelis
posted by migelis
"Convertirse en", perfect :) - cogumela, Oct 21, 2011
I think convertirse is reflexive, I say, now totally overconfident after a bit of kindness.. Pride goes before a fall.. - annierats, Oct 21, 2011
Well, what did I say, should have waited, I eat my cheese quietly. - annierats, Oct 21, 2011
Gracias, profesora:) - migelis, Oct 21, 2011
3
votes

Cansarse de = to get tired.

I tire myself of

Me canso de subir tantas escaleras - I get tired of going up so many stairs

Canso de subir...

alt text

Cansar = to be tiring

Subir escaleras cansa a cualquiera - Going up stairs is tiring for anyone

updated Oct 22, 2011
posted by cogumela