Infinitive vs. Subjunctive after a preposition (specific example)

Question

In one of my workbooks, there is a section on prepositions before infinitives that includes a set of examples headed by the following:

Note that in this construction, the main verb and the following infinitive have the same subject. When the subjects of the two clauses are different, you will need to use the conjunction que + a subjunctive verb form.

And then goes on to have 6 examples that include the following:

Me dejó su auto a condición de cuidar al perro.

He lent me his car provided that I take care of the dog.

Now, as far as I can tell, there is a subject change there, and the sentence as written is Spanish seems to indicate that “he” is the one that would be taking care of the dog. It would seem to me that the sentence in Spanish should be:

(Él) me dejó su auto a condición de que (yo) cuide al perro.

Am I missing something here, or is my workbook wrong in this example.

Edit to add, actually I think I may need past subjunctive there?:

(Él) me dejó su auto a condición de que (yo) cuidara al perro.

Answer 1

Él) me dejó su auto a condición de que (yo) cuidara al perro. = He lent me his car on the condition that I (would) take care of the dog./ with the condition of my caring for the dog.

Does this seem to be a correct understanding?

Gracias, Heidita, my stupid old version IE at work will not let me see the picture though. I will have to check when I get home to Firefox. ;-) - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

it is a thumbs up, so this was it, all correct:) - 00494d19, Oct 6, 2011

A simple "thumbs up" is a bit unclear. Do you mean that the quoted version is preferrable or that it also correct? - samdie, Oct 6, 2011

It works for me. Thanks, Heidita. ;-) - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

sam, also as to which answer?Me dejó su auto a condición de cuidar al perro., this one is unclear - 00494d19, Oct 6, 2011

That was how I felt, and if it is unclear to a native speaker, it is wrong, no matter what rules might allow. - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

Answer 2

I think you're right with:

(Él) me dejó su auto a condición de que (yo) cuide al perro.

Let's wait to see what others think.

Edit: Found this in the dictionary. Doesn't answer the question but confirms that you have (on the condition that = a condición de que) correct.

Edit 2: Found this statement online:

Adverbial conjunctions which are ALWAYS followed by the subjunctive (because they always indicate a pending/hypothetical action or state): "a condición de que"

Thanks. :-) - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

I agree Mariana, but as 'dejó' is past tense, the second verb would be 'past subjunctive', would it not? - galsally, Oct 6, 2011

In English I'd say "He left me car on the condition that I take care of the dog" so maybe the second phrase can be in the present tense? - --Mariana--, Oct 6, 2011

Re: second edit- I though that you are allowed to to avoid a subjunctive use by using the infinitive in cases where there is no subject shift, so the subjunctive only comes into play in those mandatory use phrases when the subject changes. - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

In other words, if you have a phrase labeled as requiring subjunctive, you use the infinitive if there is no subject change, and the subjunctive if there is a subject change, so that use of the infinitive implies the subject has *not* changed. - - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

It's a can of worms, this one! I'm now thinking, we can equally say 'care for the dog' or 'take care of the dog'. Help! - galsally, Oct 6, 2011

I never really understand why I do what I do in English, nor can I explain it. :-D - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

Ah! But do we have an adverbial conjunction here? - samdie, Oct 6, 2011

Answer 3

When the subjects of the two clauses are different, you will need to use the conjunction que + a subjunctive verb form.

That is assuming that you have two clauses. We just had a thread a day or two ago providing examples of when the infinitive is used even when there is a seeming "subject change" between the two verbs. In other words, in some cases you can express it with the infinitive (almost like the dative of interest), but if you opt to use a main and subordinate clause the subjunctive mood must be used.

A poorly worded "rule" (true, but misleading) that probably led to the confusion of the author of the other thread.

This first example has a apparent subject change between who is prohibiting and who can smoke.

Te prohibo fumar (prohibir and fumar have different "subjects" grammatically only if you use two clauses) [best thought of as "I forbid smoking to you"] single subject/verb.

Te prohibo que fumes

The "rule" only applies if you opt to have a main and subordinate clause. (the two verbs have two different subjects; not a subject/verb with a d.o. and i.o.p.)

The "rule" is true concerning the two clauses having different subjects; misleading when you are talking about the subjects of the two verbs).

Okay, thank you, I missed that thread, that does explain it in a way I can understand. :-) - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

But if you have the subordinating conjunction que, you do have two clauses. . . - lorenzo9, Oct 6, 2011

. . .and if you don't, you don't. (excuse my 6th grade level of grammar knowledge) - lorenzo9, Oct 6, 2011

Yes, but my question was not whether doing it two clauses was correct, but whether doing it without two clauses was incorrect. Quentin seems to have answered that for me. - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

By demonstrating that it only seemed to be a subject shift, but in fact was not. So now I can see that both ways are valid. - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

Now, I see Heidita says "Me dejó su auto a condición de cuidar al perro., this one is unclear "- so she is agreeing with my original concern. - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

Answer 4

Me dejó su auto a condición de cuidar al perro.

He lent me his car provided that I take care of the dog.

This is a perfectly good translation (in the sense that it means the same thing) but it doesn't reflect the syntax of the Spanish (since it involves a subordinate clause).

The alternative (provided by GalSally's 1st response and blessed by Heidita) better preserves the original syntax. i.e. "the condition of caring for the dog" (Heidita seems to have added a "my" on her own initiative, which, although not strictly necessary, certainly doesn't hurt).

Both the Spanish ("condición de cuidar al perro") and the equivalent English ("on/with the condition/proviso/stipulation of caring for the dog") share a similar syntax. A prepositional phrase (introduced by "de") acting as an adjective and modifying the noun ("condición"), within which, "cuidar" functions as a noun (governed by the preposition).

With the prepositional phrase the implied (and made explicit by Heidita, with her addition of "my") subject ("I") of the gerund needn't be expressed and, in Spanish, can't (to he best of my knowledge).

P.S. If this is too "grammatical", I apologize. It seemed to me that the cited lesson was grammar-oriented and, as if that weren't enough, Marianne went and used the expression "adverbial conjunction".

Thank you, the question that I am trying to ask is whether "de cuidar" only works when there is no shift of subject, and that when you shift the subject, then do you need to go to the subjunctive phrase. - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

IE, would "Me dejó su auto a condición de cuidar al perro" imply that it is his caring of the dog as he is the subject of the sentence, not I (I am the object of the first phrase). - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

So I guess I am saying, shouldn't the translation of the "de cuidar" sentence be "he lent me his car provided that he take care of the dog"- which would not be what anyone would normally require but seems to be where the sentence leads (to me)?. - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

Or are we supposed to know by context, that it must be I that takes care of the dog. But even then it is in direct contraindication to the rule about subject shifts that they posted above the set of examples, at least as far as I can see. - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

I am not concerned with the precise phrasing of the English translation, beyond the single point of who specifically the Spanish sentence is assigning "cuidar al perro" to- him or I. - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

Answer 5

I think either are correct (with past subjunctive in your example, as you say)

I'm not sure, but if I saw this sentence:

(Él) me dejó su auto a condición de cuidar al perro.

I'd translate it this way:

He lent me his car with the condition of caring for the dog. (Caring here being actually a noun) However, that doesn't seem to explain that he wants it to be me who cares for the dog, so I prefer your sentence.

Looking forward to other opinions and explanations.

Thanks. :-) - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

Answer 6

Another point or two:

When the subjects of the two clauses are different, you will need to use the conjunction que + a subjunctive verb form.

The 'que' or lack thereof is important.

• lent me his car..a condición de ...that (que) I cared for the dog. (if in present tense, the second phrase would also be in subjunctive, as you would see if you substitute 'my brother' for 'I'. .... that my brother care for the dog - English subjunctive I'm pretty sure)

• lent me his car..a condición de ...of caring for the dog.

As for the English translation here:

Edit - I'm not at all certain about this conjugation!

Me dejó su auto a condición de cuidar al perro.

He lent me his car provided that I take care of the dog. (Oops!)

It should surely read ....that I took care of the dog.

Or,

He is lending me his car provided that I take care of the dog

Seems a lot of mix-up there somehow, Stadt.

I actually think the "take" vs. "took" is English subjunctive, and could be written as "provided that I would take care of the dog"? - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

I agree, and I think in real life I would myself say any of the options depending on which entered my head first! - galsally, Oct 6, 2011

We need one of the grammar experts just for the English sentence lol. ;) - galsally, Oct 6, 2011

On the “de” vs. “de que”- I think you use “de” when you will be using an infinitive, and “de que” if you will be conjugating, and can only use an infinitive when you are not conceptually switching the subject (even if you are using the infinitive as a ... - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

jeje - I have to go now too but I'm watching it. Have a good meeting. - galsally, Oct 6, 2011

noun- it should still refer to the original subject- "his" caring of the dog). I should not start these threads before I have to go to a meeting. :-) - Stadt, Oct 6, 2011

Answer 7

So as a summation of what I understand from the answers/discussion:

A preposition followed directly by an infinitive refers the infinitive to the original subject.

Switch of subject requires addition of “que” followed by a phrase in the appropriate mood and tense.

Me dejó su auto a condición de cuidar al perro. = He lent me his care with the condition that he (would) take care of the dog. / with the condition of his caring for the dog.

(Él) me dejó su auto a condición de que (yo) cuidara al perro. = He lent me his car on the condition that I (would) take care of the dog./ with the condition of my caring for the dog.

Does this seem to be a correct understanding?