Lo vi batear, lo vi bateando, lo vi correr, lo vi corriendo
Usually between a change in subject I see que or something that functions like que.
Today one of our members asked how to say "I saw him bat yesterday."
No one gave him a satisfactory answer.
The only way I can manage to get the sentiment across would be:
"Ayer lo ví mientras que él bateaba."
But is there a way to say it without the "que?"
12 Answers
Here is an interesting link that explains the use and abuse of the gerundio and explains the specific case where it can be used as an adjective modifying the object of a verb.
Heidita says that the right way to say it is 'ayer lo vi batear' and not 'ayer lo vi bateando'.
In fact I based my answer on what Paralee teaches in lesson 4.14, where she clearly explains that it's common to use gerundios as adverbs with verbs of perception; ver, mirar, oír, notar and escuchar. Here are the examples she gives..
- Te vi merendando en la plaza.
- Me miraron cortando la cinta.
- Lo oyó anunciando los ganadores.
So is 'ayer lo vi bateando' wrong??? Is there a difference in meaning between using the infinitive and the gerundio??? Just like the difference in English between..
I saw him cross the street - action completed
I saw him crossing the street - not necessarily completed.
But this thread has not addressed Lo ví muriendo.
Is that OK?
No. In this sentence, muriendo is functioning as an adverb modifying ví, which makes no sense. In the intended English sentence, dying acts as an adjective modifying the object. The gerundio in Spanish cannot function as an adjective. Read Qfreed's pdf link for the explanation.
Edit:
After reading about the use of the gerundio in several discussions of Spanish grammar written in Spanish, I'm changing my mind.
There is no problem with Lo ví morir.
But this thread has not addressed Lo ví muriendo.
Is that OK? Or do you say
Lo ví cuando/mientras estaba muriendo.
Ayer lo ví mientras que él moría.
What about the reference I cited (I can't seem to make the link work) which says that
"The verbs to see and to hear never govern the gerund in Spanish, but always the infinitive; thus we canno say, Lo (or le - lismo) viendo, but le ví venir."
Ayer lo vi batear"
Good job, jeezle, you have come a long way
I just looked in Gramática didáctica del español by Leonardo Gomez Torrego, and in section 2.5.3.1 it says that gerundios can be used as adjectives in some cases.
Gramática de la lengua española by Emilio Alarcos Llarach says something similar.
Lo vi muriendo" I saw him dying.
"The verbs to see and to hear never govern the gerund in Spanish, but always the infinitive; thus we canno say, Lo (or le - lismo) viendo, but le ví venir."
I am not sure I understand all the subtleties in the original question and I'm kicking this up in hopes for further elucidation.
I would say "Ayer lo vi batear"
"Lo vi morir" I saw him die.
Edit: For fun here's a mientras use.
Ayer lo vi morir mientras bateaba. Que pena.
I am not seeing that all too clear at all.
Both forms are possible.
Yo lo vi correr.
I saw him and he was running.
Lo vi corriendo.
I was running and I saw him
This reminds me of the English forget or remind.
I forgot to tell him, I forgot telling him. both are possible and both are correct but mean something different.
As I am not able to explain that any further, I have written to our wonderful Academia
I will let you know
Como se dijo anteriormente, también hay un caso en que la acción del gerundio puede relacionarse con el complemento directo: cuando se usa con algún verbo que indique percepción sensible o intelectual. Es más: en estos casos, el gerundio modifica al complemento directo. Es la única situación en la lengua española en que un gerundio puede fungir como adjetivo. Es importante recalcar que esto sólo sucede con verbos de percepción sensible o intelectual. En los ejemplos que veremos a continuación, el verbo principal está subrayado. El complemento directo (modificado por el gerundio) aparece en letra negrita, y el gerundio está en letra cursiva.
Ejemplos:
Vi [yo] a mi novio corriendo detrás del ladrón. [Quien corre es mi novio].
Escuchó [él, ella, Juan…] al anciano llorando toda la noche. [Quien llora es el anciano].
Recordamos [nosotros] a la mujer saltando de felicidad. [Quien salta es la mujer].
Very interesting, thanks for the link, Lorenzo. So both are right, but what's the difference in meaning?
Very interesting, thanks for the link, Lorenzo. So both are right, but what's the difference in meaning?
My guess is that when the object of the verb is explicit and the gerundio follows it, the gerundio acts as an adjective describing the object (assuming that the principal verb is one of perception). However, when the object is replaced with a pronoun and the gerundio is next to the principal verb instead, it would seem that there is an ambiguity. In English grammar, this is called a dangling modifier (more specifically a dangling participle) and is considered an error because the modifier acts on something other than that dictated by the sentence structure. For example:
I saw the trailer peeking through the window.
Since trailers can't peek, this clearly means that I was peeking. Replacing "trailer" with "him" gives:
I saw him peeking through the window.
This means that I saw him and he was peeking through the window. However, some people incorrectly use this sentence to mean that they were peeking through the window when they saw him.
I would imagine that Spanish grammar has similar rules in order to avoid problems, but I could not find a specific reference. It could be that the rule forbidding the modification of verbs of perception by gerundios alluded to by jeremais forces the gerundio to act as an adjective on the direct object (pronoun) and thereby resolves the possible ambiguity.
Spanish gerundios can be used as adverbs, so I'd say....
Ayer lo vi bateando / lo vi bateando ayer.
