Me llamo ≠ I call myself
Time to debunk this myth once and for all!
This stone calls itself tourmaline ???? ![alt text][1] No, this "se llama" is not different from the one used for people -it is the same, there is no calling oneself here. People and things are given names and then "se llaman X", even if no one has ever called or even uttered their names once, even if they were all mute. Also, "Me llamo a mí mismo" sounds very odd, because native speakers do not think about calling oneself anything... unless they label themselves something which is not their names. This sentence makes more sense if you call yourself using a telephone. The latest grammar from the Asociación de Academias de la Lengua Española explains: ...se distinguen claramente en castellano el uso pronominal del verbo llamar (Así es como me llamo) y el transitivo (Se llama a sí mismo Campeón). ...Spanish clearly differentiates between the pronominal use of the verb llamar (Me llamo X = My name is X) and the transitive one (Se llama a sí mismo Campeón = He calls himself Campeón) Summing up: in my opinion, when someone asks what does "Me llamo" mean, it wouldn't hurt to briefly explain that that sentence is using a verb that has no equivalent in English, so the best alternative is to completely rephrase it as "My name is", which sounds as natural in English as "Me llamo" in Spanish. The literal translation might appear to be "I call myself", but Spanish people only interpret it that way for nicknames and other labels; the rest of the time, when they use it for their real name, native speakers don't perceive any reflexiveness in that "me". There are countless situations where there is "me" and no reflexivity, like in "Me caigo", where you are not falling yourself. [1]: http://bocaberta.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/gem-paraiba-tourmaline.jpg" />
23 Answers
I think you're making things unessisarily confusing. I don't see how this information helps anyone speak Spanish. It's very abstract.
That wasn't my intention. I believe that you have to think like a native if you want to learn a language correctly, and if you think that "me llamo" is the same as "I call myslef", you are not thinking like a native... at all! You've got the wrong idea.
I don't see your point Lazarus. Literally it translates as "I call myself". Everyone knows it actually means "My name is".
Everybody? I am not so sure. Most people are unaware that there is no myself in the mind of a native speaker with your own name, and adding "a mí mismo" (=myself) would make the sentence sound ridiculous.
The only true translations are proper nouns, surely?
Do you think that the RAE and all other academies of Spanish from 22 countries are all wrong too? (read the extract I quoted). I am positively sure about this. Grammars clearly explain that this SE in "llamarse" is part of the verb, which is is intransitive (i.e. you are not calling anyone), and its meaning is close to a copulative verb, i.e. Me llamo X ? Soy X. In fact, when you are introducing yourself, you can say "Encantado, soy X" as well as "Encantado, me llamo X" with the same intention, but you would sound stupid if you said "Encantado, me llamo X a mí mismo".
Russian has the same word as Spanish, and uses it the same way:
???? ????? where "????" is a form of I, just like "me" is a form of "yo;" and
????? is the same as "llamo" in Spanish.
Up until I read Lazarus's post, I would hesitate when using my "first learned" sentence because I was "translating back and forth."
Lazarus's posts continue to help me to "think" in Spanish.
And today, for the first time in 35 years, I got it!!.
I also know those coming from a language where the definite and indefinite articles are absent, find it virtually impossible to use them correctly. However, when I started explaining "how we thought/what we heard to a special few, within days they were using them flawlessly.
You can bet your bottom dollar we are standing in line for Lazarus's book!
Because we know he is the only one at present who can help us cross the "continental divide" between speaking and "thinking as a native" in Spanish.
His writing style has fewer ambiguities, and is clearer and easier to understand than just about any other wordsmith I know in the English language.
Bring on your book, Lazarus!!
Nice explanation. I've never thought about the "missing verb" explanation. I always thought it was just a case of impassive verbs - "I am called...".
I always appreciate your input. I like the way you take language down to the nuts and bolts, and I find it useful to avoid literal translation. My goal, lofty as it may be, is to think like a native. At my age and given my circumstances I may never reach my goal, but I'm enjoying the journey. That's why I call your post "brain candy."
Rabbit said:
I think you're making things unessisarily (sic) confusing.
I have never seen a teacher who has made things as perfectly clear, concise, and straight-forward as Lazarus. Many of us are waiting for his book!
Rabbit further said:
I don't see how this information helps anyone speak Spanish.
How could it not help to know that your literal translation is off? That's like saying "I don't care about the history of the language or the culture...I just want to speak Spanish." Both the history and the culture teach us why things are said as they are and help us to avoid the pitfalls of translating literally from our mother tongue to the second language.
I have some sympathy for rabbitwho here.
The very interesting explanation given by Lazarus is fantastic in its content and intention.
However if I had to go to that length to understand and / or use all "pairs" of words - I think I would have "given up" a long time ago. 
I speak Danish "Jeg heder Ian" - "I am called Ian" - similar to the Swedish "heter" - mentioned by Lazarus.
I always just thought of this verb as "to be called" and therefore in the small group of "to be" verbs in English - "to be born" for example. "Nacer does not exist in English either.
Guys can I just specify again that I have no problem with this thread or this knowledge I was just making the point that saying it to a complete beginner is counter productive.
http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/204076/llamollama
In the above thread I explained it as I learned it. Every single Spanish resource explains it this way. Lazarus said that was wrong. I asked him how. I continued the discussion in this thread and then somehow that came across as me disagreeing with all of what he said. What I really meant, or at least what I think I meant, was that this is not something that Foadle and people like her need to know yet. This is a linguistic thing, it's not a language learning thing.
Why does everything on the internet always have to turn into an argument?
I don't see your point Lazarus. Literally it translates as "I call myself". Everyone knows it actually means "My name is".
I don't think anybody assumes it has the meaning it would have in English, e.g. my name is Rebecca but I call myself RabbitWho online.
The only true translations are proper nouns, surely?
Thank you Lazarus. I have always given people the 'correct' literal translation, which I now know is not correct 
I am amazed at your ability to make things stunningly clear.
I don't see your point Lazarus. Literally it translates as "I call myself". Everyone knows it actually means "My name is".
Everyone? Some of us understand this but I believe Laz was simply trying (and did a great job at it) to teach us the why of the phrase. The verb can be confusing to others and to make a blanket statement like this (Everyone...) is absurd. If you didn't "get" anything out of this thread then feel free to skip it. I personally did get something out of it and I want to thank Lazarus for posting it. The "loss" of the verb in English was something I didn't even know we had a one time. 
Look Rabbitwho, you can post, of course, anything you want but try to understand that not everybody knows something as "simple" as this. Have a great day everybody!!
Sorry, but I have nothing of value to contribute here. Just staring at the immensity between what I think I know of Spanish and the reality of what is going on. Thank you for the perspective view.
I have a very different view than Rabbit; this was very helpful in my quest to not translate literally from one language to another.
Lazarus said:
...native speakers don't perceive any reflexiveness in that "me". There are countless situations where there is "me" and no reflexivity, like in "Me caigo", where you are not falling yourself...
Great...that's easy to remember.
And then further on:
... this SE in "llamarse" is part of the verb, which is is intransitive (i.e. you are not calling anyone), and its meaning is close to a copulative verb...
Perfect...I like this explanation that it's simply part of the verb and no need to try and force it to be something it's not, e.g., reflexive.
Eddy said:
I "myself" think, I wonder if the "myself" here fits anywhere within Lazarus's explanation, that the main point of this thread is to get us thinking like a Spaniard and not to keep literally comparing English to Spanish.
This thread is very helpful for me in my constant goal, which is to try thinking the way a native Spanish speaker would.
I am just curious about one thing. Do people whose native tongue is something other than English find themselves struggling in the same way? Another way of putting this: Do English speaking people tend to be more self absorbed with the notion that other languages should fit into the mold of English and that there should be a literal word for word translation of everything?
I know this is a bit off topic, but I can only speak from my own experience and those of my English speaking friends learning Spanish.
Thanks for clearing this topic up for me Lazarus. I too am waiting for your book. Hopefully, there will be a "Lazarus Explains Spanish for Dummies" which will be the version I start with. 
I "myself" think, I wonder if the "myself" here fits anywhere within Lazarus's explanation, that the main point of this thread is to get us thinking like a Spaniard and not to keep literally comparing English to Spanish.
Excellent, thank you Lazarus. I find this sort of explanation really helpful. One of the things I am trying to master currently is to not translate literally. Its difficult because I have never studied a foreign language before and I am getting on in years lol so my brain is well and truly hard-wired to English.
