You beat them with your bare hands

Question

Ganaste solo con tus manos desnudos contra espadas.

Los ganaste solo con tus manos desnudos contra espadas.

Te Los ganaste solo con tus manos desnudos contra espadas.

It's the third one right? Because ganarSE is need to mean "to beat someone" and "manos desnudos" is bare hands. Right? Gracias.

Answer 1

Ok. Well how would you say "you beat them......." using los (or les)..... then? If both Los ganaste and Te los ganaste aren't good to use in this sense?

I would say "Les ganaste". "Te los ganaste" is "you earned their trust, friendship, hate..."

Our dictionary lists "bare" as one definition of "desnudo" and that was an actual line I heard from a movie, I'll consider it unusual though.

I like the Collins, because it is very helpful in these cases:

bare

1 (=uncovered)

[body, skin, shoulders, person] desnudo

[head] descubierto

[feet] descalzo

[landscape] pelado

[tree] sin hojas

[ground] árido, sin vegetación

It doesn't specify hands, but notice that it is not the same if you refer to your body, your head, your feet, the landscape, the tree... you can't just use "desnudo" for everything, and in Spanish we don't normally say "desnudo" for hands, and we assume that hands are bare by default, so we don't tend to specify that, or we just say "solo con las manos" (only with our (bare) hands). I have a combination dictionary of Spanish that lists all the words that go along with others taken from a large corpus, and "mano" goes with over 30 adjectives, but none of them is "desnudo".

If you prefer a second (or a third) opinion, just wait and see what others say. I've run out of ideas.

Answer 2

So "Les ganaste" is right. Yet Les is the direct object right? So why les and not los, I don't get that. Is it just like decir and comprar where LES is always seemingly used instead of LOS? Because otherwise I can't imagine why ........ LES ganaste and then Te LOS ganaste. It seems totally arbitrary there. wink Gracias.

Why...? Well... I would have to check all my historical dictionaries and grammars to answer that question, because I am not an encyclopaedia, but "ganar" comes from a Germanic root that means "to desire", so it makes perfect sense that you desire things (and possibly sexual targets, I guess). The extra indirect object is the legacy of the Spanish syntax, that adds indirect objects to include people that are involved or concerned in verbal transactions, so the things that you desire (the direct object) can be taken or won from other people (the indirect object). "Ganar a una persona" is, literally, to earn that person, as in a riffle, like a slave. I am unsure (without doing research) how and when the prepositional construction (i.e. Ganar a alguien a algo) was added, but "Le gané" (I beat him/her) is an implicit way of saying "Le gané la batalla/el torneo/..." (=I earned the battle/the trophy... out of his/her hands), where the involvement of the other person in this "earning something" is that you are taking the victory out of this person's hands. That's the best I can offer you right now.

"Te los ganaste" is highly idiomatic, in my opinion, because "ganar" is still about things you get for yourself, but that "te" implies that you keep things to yourself or for yourself, rather than the "out of their hands" that I explained in the last paragraph, so the meaning naturally changes to "people" (the "gaining", the direct object) are brought close to you, for good or for bad.

Answer 3

By the way, it is no coincidence that "ganar" and "to gain" look similar.

Answer 4

Ganaste solo con tus manos desnudos contra espadas.

Los ganaste solo con tus manos desnudos contra espadas.

Te Los ganaste solo con tus manos desnudos contra espadas.

It's the third one right? Because ganarSE is need to mean "to beat someone" and "manos desnudos" is bare hands. Right? Gracias.

First of all, "mano" is that special exception of feminine word that ends in -o (the only exception in Medieval Spanish), so it should be "desnudas". Also (unless people have already begin to copy English expressions literally), hands cannot be naked in Spanish; they are "descubiertas". In any case, that "solo" implies that the hand wasn't even wearing gloves, so I would even omit "descubiertas". I would also say "las espadas".

The first one is fine, because it is an acceptable intransitive construction where no losers are mentioned. The second one is not recommended. "Ganar" can (in theory) only take an object as a direct object (e.g. Gané una medalla), and it can take an indirect object on top of it (e.g. Le gané el partido de fútbol), but if there is no direct object, the "beaten" person remains the indirect object (e.g. Le gané), which can take an optional prepositional object (e.g. Le gané al ajedrez).

The third one is a special case, because the meaning with this "te" is understood (among other things) as having made an effort to end up with people or things on your side. "Te los ganaste", referred to people, can mean "You really earned their trust/respect/friendship... or even their hate", but it doesn't seem to work in battles where you beat your opponent.

Answer 5

I would say "sin armas". . .and "les ganaste".

Yeah but the guy had two arms man, and two bare hands. ;) - jeezzle, Aug 17, 2011

Answer 6

Ok cool I have the Collins dictionary too, so I will look at it first. I like it pretty well, (there is a talking one too)

BUT one more question:

I would say "Les ganaste". "Te los ganaste" is "you earned their trust, friendship, hate..."

So "Les ganaste" is right. Yet Les is the direct object right? So why les and not los, I don't get that. Is it just like decir and comprar where LES is always seemingly used instead of LOS? Because otherwise I can't imagine why ........ LES ganaste and then Te LOS ganaste. It seems totally arbitrary there. Gracias.

Check my answer, because I updated it several minutes after writing it. - lazarus1907, Aug 17, 2011

I intend to go over this fully several times. - jeezzle, Aug 17, 2011

Gracias Lazarus. - jeezzle, Aug 17, 2011

No prob. - lazarus1907, Aug 17, 2011

I read all comments, and still do not get in what context are you trying to use the phrase. Are you creating a writing or just saw it somewhere? &> - Silvia, Aug 17, 2011

Saw it somewhere. - jeezzle, Aug 18, 2011

Answer 7

First of all, "mano" is that special exception of feminine word that ends in -o (the only exception in Medieval Spanish), so it should be "desnudas". Also (unless people have already begin to copy English expressions literally), hands cannot be naked in Spanish; they are "descubiertas". In any case, that "solo" implies that the hand wasn't even wearing gloves, so I would even omit "descubiertas". I would also say "las espadas". The first one is fine, because it is an acceptable intransitive construction where no losers are mentioned. The second one is not recommended. "Ganar" can (in theory) only take an object as a direct object (e.g. Gané una medalla), and it can take an indirect object on top of it (e.g. Le gané el partido de fútbol), but if there is no direct object, the "beaten" person remains the indirect object (e.g. Le gané), which can take an optional prepositional object (e.g. Le gané al ajedrez). The third one is a special case, because the meaning with this "te" is understood (among other things) as having made an effort to end up with people or things on your side. "Te los ganaste", referred to people, can mean "You really earned their trust/respect/friendship... or even their hate", but it doesn't seem to work in battles where you beat your opponent.

1. Ok. Well how would you say "you beat them......." using los (or les)..... then? If both Los ganaste and Te los ganaste aren't good to use in this sense?

2. Our dictionary lists "bare" as one definition of "desnudo" and that was an actual line I heard from a movie, I'll consider it unusual though.

Gracias