Manchester United were playing Barcelona

Question

Marianna's question about la puerta abierto reminded me of how common it is for incorrect grammar to be embraced and used in a culture, eventually to become enshrined in the language. My current peeve is the way the English pluralize a sports team, which is a singular entity. At first when I heard this it sounded quaint and I thought it was actually a vestige of an ancient form of speech. But then I realized it's a relatively new development. It is perhaps an outgrowth of referring to a sports team as "they". It's true that a team is composed of many individuals, but the team is still singular. Maybe this reflects the growth of indiviualism in sport, the individuals are more important than the team. Manchester United were playing Barcelona. And got their butt/butts kicked!

Interesting point, J - patch, Aug 13, 2011

Answer 1

This is the only example I can think of where American English sounds foreign to me (I'm a Brit). To my mind it's not a matter of singular/plural ... it's more to do with the fact that "Manchester United" is a "they" and not an "it". For example ...

Man U played Barcelona last week. It played well but it still lost

U2 played to a full house. It releases its new album next week

...surely it must be "they/their" ...¿no?

(and yes, Jeremias ... they/it got their/its butt royally kicked all the way back to ol' Blighty )

Yeah, I don't have a dog in that fight, as they say, but Barcelona sure was beautiful to watch. I saw the game on TV at a sports bar in Mexico City. - Jeremias, Aug 13, 2011

... never heard that expresion before ... - patch, Aug 13, 2011

Answer 2

It's a good point. I'm probably in the minority but I'm a fan of it. By saying something grammatically incorrect, I can alter the feeling of the sentence and I actually use this in everyday life (for me there is a difference between making a grammatical mistake on purpose vs. out of ignorance).

Manchester United was playing Barcelona = Man U is a team that I view as a single entity because I don't care much for them

Milan were playing Barcelona = My image of Milan is intertwined with each player and there is more of a connection. It's a subtle difference in English but it feels like a weak diminutive almost.

I can understand the aversion but when it can be used to convey something, as in this case, I find it can be useful.

OK - while we're at it, did you mean to say something incorrectLY, grammatically speaking? :) - Jeremias, Aug 13, 2011

Haha, it took me awhile to find it. Of course I meant to do it :P - bafalck, Aug 13, 2011

Answer 3

Hmm...you're so right. I would say "The Red Sox are the best team in New England" when it should be "The Red Sox is the best team in New England."

Either way, they are. (Of course, they're the only team major league team in New England.) - Jeremias, Aug 13, 2011

Answer 4

"How about them Red Sox?"

Hey...how do you know that we say that?! It's a saying in Massachusetts....totally, completely grammatically incorrect.

I think New Orleans has you beat :\ - bafalck, Aug 13, 2011

I bet it sounds more like, "Hey, how 'bout dem Red Sox?" - MrSillyInc, Aug 13, 2011

"Dem" Sox would be the way they say it in New York. New Engladers actually do say "them Sox." - Jeremias, Aug 13, 2011

Answer 5

Even though it is wrong to say "their" or "were", it just sounds plain strange (to me, anyway) if you say, "The Manchester United is on its way to Barcelona".

Or, even worse, someone might ask your opinion on a sports team (I'll use Mariana's example of the Red Sox), and they'll say, "How about them Red Sox?" Ahhh, that's wrong on so many levels!

Interestingly, if one was just to say the name of the city of the team, they'd use the singular form. Boston's the best team in the league!

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From this website...

(you probably cannot read that, sorry)

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Oy, English makes my head hurt!

Answer 6

Not entirely on the subject, but have you ever considered these two teams:

Toronto Maple Leafs

Minnesota Timberwolves

and why it is not:

Toronto Maple Leaves

or

Minnesota Timberwolfs

But anyway we express most teams in plural, so I personally say

The Pacific Boxers are going to play tomorrow

or

The Pacific Boxer team is going to play tomorrow

But I would not claim to know what is grammatically correct.

Answer 7

OK, now to get really off-topic.

How about them Sox! The Sox have two new Mexican players, the great hitter Adrian Gonzalez and the surprising pitcher Alfredo Aceves. Last weekend during the Yankee series, the richest man in the world, Carlos Slim (the Mexican cell phone magnate) visited the team and was able to walk all over Fenway Park and the Fens with nobody recognizing, he is so under the radar in the US. I thought that was pretty interesting.

And speaking of the way language reflects true feelings, most of Red Sox Nation resorts to the first person plural when discussing "their" team. For instance, "We should never have sent Lester out for the 8th when Bard was rested and ready to go." This happens I'm sure with other fans, but with Red Sox fans its usual!