Did Jesus really walk this earth?
A sceptical friend of mine says that, while the Romans were known for recording every little detail, that there was no mention at all of the human Jesus or his deeds or his disciples, which according to the gospels were the cause of quite the riot among Jews, in the chronicals of the Roman Empire. This could cause one to believe that the New Testament is a fairy tale made up by a (group of) genius writer(s).
I wonder if any (Christians) among you have encountered this inconsistency and also what your arguments are in favor of a physical apprearance in the form of a human being 2000 years ago.
Note that this question does not concern whether or not he was the son of God (I don't want to start a religious war here). Right now I'm only interested in whether or not Jesus walked this earth as a man.
18 Answers
I believe that your friend is mistaken. There are a few mentions of Jesus by historians of that period. The context is usually called "Historical Jesus". I think this page lists some secular references to Jesus, the historical figure:
Ancient secular history (Click on the links to be taken to the author's works).
I know that you said you wanted fact about the historical Jesus and there are some here who have already given you many references.
One of the biggest evidences that Jesus lived and was who he said he was:The Son of God both 2,000 years ago and still today is shown in changed lifestyles and I don't mean making a few, small, life-style choices but people who were aetheists and pagans even witches turning to Christ, handing their lives over to him in prayer and their lives being completely transformed something that cannot possibly be attributed to the power of man either the individual concerned or other professionals helping them.
In addition to this, people who had strong addictions to drink and drugs being delivered/set free from them by the power of the Holy Spirit.when professionals had been unable to help them.
Before some of you quickly dismiss what I say as fanciful nonsense there are thousands of people in England and world wide who have been delivered from such things and would you turn to them and tell them that they are lying or mistaken when their families and friends have noticed big differneces in their lives...just because some of you do not want to believe?
No one is forcing anyone to believe Christianity's claims to be true. God respects your freewill to choose to accept or reject him but would you reject the testimony of someone in court before hearing what they had to say...even if you did not like what they said? Somehow, I think not.
QFreed gave a very good link. In particular, Cornelius Tacitus and Josephus are extremely good historical references. Both men were historians of the time period. Neither was a Christian.
There are very many crazy things and outright lies about Jesus and Christianity floating around the internet. Your friend has gotten one of them. That Jesus lived is a historical fact.
Unfortunately there was once a time where a group with considerable influence over the Christian religion operated under the philosophy that "it was ok to lie" in order to convert people to Christianity. So we can't really know if there was ever anyone named Jesus who existed because forgeries run like the rivers of babylon.
Some people say the bible itself is compelling evidence that the character of Jesus in the bible probably existed, since the writers went through a lot of pangs to establish proper genealogy and to reconcile various other things that if they were just making up the character they wouldn't have had to deal with. Basically they say things about him that were conflicting with other things that were prophesied/required of Jesus, so they say additional things about him to reconcile otherwise conflicting issues.
I'm more interested in the zombies that were (according to one of the authors) present at his crucifixion.
Sin duda había un hombre se llama Cristo. La pregunta es. ¿Qué lo hizo para ganar la atención de toda la gente por todos los siglos? El impacto fue muy significativo. Mire los retablos, las catedrales y los monumentos. Pero ahora mismo, con la sociedad actual, es una pregunta de fe. Los fieles. ¿Más o menos?
I would like to make two points. First, the winners are the ones who write history. If the Romans didn't want anyone to know about Jesus, of course they wouldn't write about him.
Second, two other religions remember Jesus. Islam talks about Jesus, as does Hinduism. In both, they recognised him as being a person of good deeds and held him up to be a person/being/deity that they look to for a good example of how to live their life.
I'm not Christian, but for those reasons, I believe that there was a person living in that part of the world at that time named Jesus that made people strive to be better people.
There are arguments for and against the historical existence of Jesus, but claiming that a central figure in a religion is fictional is one step away from claiming that the religion is a fiction. In other words, it is automatically a hot button for adherents of the faith. There are detractors of the faith with equally strong emotional responses, so such discussions quickly degenerate into heated exchanges of veiled and not so veiled insults.
I hope this thread is closed before that happens.
Billy Juadism also recognises that Jesus existed and walked the planet and was very real They simply dispute who he said he was Jews often beeliev that Jesus was a prophet but dispute his claims to be the Messiah . Apart from Messianic believers who .... - FELIZ77
Feliz, did you actually read what I said? I said that I believe Jesus was a real person. I have absolutely no problem with religious people, but I hate hypocrisy. Most of my family are Christians and I attend all of their celebrations etc. I also have some very dear Muslim friends and I have visited their beautiful Mosques too.
Myself.... I don't class myself as anything at all. I don't need a label. I know the difference between right and wrong and try to live my life that way.
This is an interesting topic, Wakka.
I'll leave the thread open as long as it remains civil and people respect each other's opinions.
Did Jesus really walk this earth?
Maybe the question should be "Was Jesus of Nazareth the son of God?"
We have to be very careful with recorded history as it can many times be slanted. If you look at the Mexican-American War, for example, Mexican history books give us a completely different story from US history books. And the US government to this day is still refusing to comment on the slaughter of native American men, women, and children for its land acquisitions.
There does seem to be sufficient evidence of Jesus, the man, walking this earth by numerous sources, even without regard to any religion.
The base of the Christian religion has a slanted history as well - with differences from the amount of books contained in the bible, to interpretations, to the question of Mary Magdalene being Jesus´ wife or not.
Mexican history books favor Mexico and US history books favor the US. Writers of what eventually became the bible could not possibly favor Mary Magdalene because men didn´t allow women any status until recentlly, so the theory is that the church had to play down the fact that Jesus had a wife like any other man and turn Mary into a prostitute to keep her "in her place" because her existence is overwhelmingly confirmed.
The mixture of inaccurate history and faith can create many fairy tales, but in the end I think Jesus, whoever he was, set a good example for all.
Well, to just stick to your original question, if you don't think that Jesus Christ was a real person, than the Koran must be off too. The Koran refers to Jesus multiple times. While of course Islam does not portray him as the Savior, or even as divine, he is definitely referred to as a real flesh and blood person, who "walked this earth" as you asked.
I thought he walked on water (or was that Noah?)
I have no doubt that there was a bloke called Jesus, just like there was a bloke called Mohammed. We have these blokes around these days too....David Blaine, David Copperfield.
Yes Lorenzo that is true but many things were done in the name of Christianity that jesus would have condemned as wrong eg the Crusades Thes were not necessarily carried out but true followers of Jesus but have given the Church a bad name
I think that is true of all religions with a prophet or charismatic leader as a foundation--Chritianity is just one example of many. Once the prophet dies, there is a power struggle and eventually a "political" group takes control of the "official" interpretation of the religion. This results in both schisms (and the formation of new branches of the religion) and people using the church as a foundation to further their personal goals. After a few generations, the original direction has usually been lost.
A current example of this is Subud (Susila Budhi Dharma) whose founder died a few years ago. The death is recent enough that the power vacuum is still being filled.
Feliz - I hope you know that I respect your beliefs - but would just like to say that "Belief in itself can indeed move mountains" metaphorical montains that is, for example getting off drugs or other addictions - or overcoming other difficulties that life throws at us.
I don't see how is it offensive to be interested in historical evidence of Jesus' existence. It only shows my interest in their religion, no?
It shows interest, yes, but stating a claim to one of bases of their (and my) religion will provoke some tension.
