need help with the subjunctive stem

Question

Ok, so I have just one problem left with the subjunctive. I was looking at one of the rules in the reference and it said that spelling changes in the preterit are maintained in the subjunctive. Doesn't this clash with the subjunctive stem? For example:

hacer ---> hago ---> hag BUT in the preterit it changes to hic so why isn't that used as the stem if spelling changes in preterit are maintained? llegar ---> llego ---> lleg BUT it is llegu in the preterit. For some reason the subjunctive uses the preterit stem this time unlike with hacer.

I have to be misunderstanding something. Also does the preterit spelling changes only refer to the 1st person preterit? (those were the only types of examples given; empezar, llegar, explicar)

Muchas gracias!

EDIT: figured out with help from kimbos! "spelling changers" only refers to -car, -gar, and -zar verbs that change to preserve the sound, not verbs that change their spelling just because they are irregular such as the i, u, uv, and j spelling changers in the preterit. was just a matter of term semantics. thanks kimbos!

the third person plural preterite stem is used for the imperfect subjunctive, the present just uses the yo form of the present indicative - drop the o and add the endings - Kiwi-Girl, Jul 9, 2011

I understand kind of what you are saying llegué is the preterite and llegue is the subj., but in Spanish the accent is considered as a different spelling. - pescador1, Jul 9, 2011

but changing a verb to preserve the sound such as in llegue (present subjunctive) - it would sound like lleje if you didn't put the 'u' in - is a whole different thing than using the preterite stem which you don't do for the present subjunctive. :) - Kiwi-Girl, Jul 9, 2011

Of course even though you use the present yo form stem for the present subjunctive there are going to be some irregularities http://www.drlemon.com/Grammar/Subjunctive/sub-form.html :) - Kiwi-Girl, Jul 9, 2011

Answer 1

Spelling changes, I'm pretty sure, refer to things that change when a verb has a certain ending (like ger, gir, gar, car, zar). Hacer is not a spell changing verb, it is irregular. The the fact that it changes to hic is not because of a spelling change, but because the verb is simply irregular. On the other hand, llegar is spell changing verb. It ends in "gar" and therefore, the "g" changes to "gu"

I tried to explain your second question, but I ended up confusing myself, so better to little someone when a little more knowledge do that.

I think you may be right. If spelling changers only refer to those that change in the 1st person in order to preserve the sound then it all makes sense! - bafalck, Jul 9, 2011

Answer 2

The spelling changes are maintained from the preterite uds. form in the imperfect subjunctive, not in the present subjunctive. For example the infinitive "llegar" is "llegaron" in the preterite Uds. form, so the stem for the imperfect would be "llega" giving you llegara, llegaras, etc. For "hacer" the preterite is "hicieron" giving you hiciera, hicieras, etc. For the present subjunctive, there are many irregular verbs that you just have to commit to memory. Also remember in the imperfect subjunctive you can use the endings se, ses, se, semos, seis, and sen as well.

spelling changes are maintained from the preterit 1st person in the present subjunctive as well. I took this rule directly from the reference. - bafalck, Jul 9, 2011

Well, you are either misunderstanding it, or it is wrong. I actually can't think of a single instance where this woks. - pescador1, Jul 9, 2011

i figured it out as i edited above and its been working this entire time for me. look at 1st person preterit of any car,gar, and zar verbs. its the same as the 1st person subjunctive minus an accent on the e as the rule in the reference states - bafalck, Jul 9, 2011

Answer 3

A very general rule: Look at the ending of the infinitive form of the verb, if the ending is "ar" then subjunctive will end with an "E" if it finishes in "er" or "ir" it means the subjuntive conjugation will end in "A" (as far as I know, this rule applies to subjunctive present)

Secondly: look at the conjugation of the first person singular, (simple present) and use that form to conjugate the subjunctive.

Example: verb "hacer" yo hago (present).

Subjunctive: haga/ hagas/haga/hagamos/hagan (hagáis - in Spain) /hagan.

Example: verb "cantar " yo canto ( present)

Subjunctive: cante/cantes/cante/cantemos/canten ( cantéis-Spain) / canten.

Example: verb "vivir " yo vivo ( present)

Subjunctive: viva/vivas/viva/vivamos/vivan ( viváis-Spain) / vivan.

Right, the general rule I understand. The only part I don't understand is how to incorporate the preterit spelling changes. I guess my question was worded in a confusing way. - bafalck, Jul 9, 2011

hopefully you understand my example with llegar though. following the conjugation of the first person singular would give you llege, lleges, etc. but it is actually llegUe, llegUes, etc. and because they take into account the preterit spelling changes - bafalck, Jul 9, 2011

balfalck: true enough. Although, learning by sound, as I have done, the sounds become natural. In my learning process I have learned first the sound and then the grammar. - pacofinkler, Jul 9, 2011

Answer 4

I am studying imperfect subjunctive, This is also a very general rule that is working for me for regular verbs only.

"AR" verbs: remove the "ar" and add "ara" and conjugate with the new ending.

Example: verb "trabajar" trabajara/trabajaras/trabajara/trabajáramos/trabajaran ( trabajárais-Spain)/ trabajaran.

"ER" and " IR " verbs: remove the "er" or "ir"and add "iera" and conjugate with the new ending.

Example: verb "comer" comiera/comieras/comiera/comiéramos/comieran ( comiérais-Spain) / comieran.

Example: verb "vivir" viviera/vivieras/viviera/viviéramos/vivieran ( viviérais-Spain) / vivieran.

Note: the other two forms in subjunctive are not used at all in the north of Mexico in daily or regular use.

The problem with this method is the irregular verbs. As far as I know, using the third person preterite form always works without exception. - pescador1, Jul 9, 2011