Did I use the verbs correctly here?

Question

No fue criado fui criada para ser una ladrona y no me gusta la inferencia de que la soy.

I was not raised to be a thief and I dislike the inference that I am.

Please correct my Spanish errors; especially "that I am". Gracias.

Another suggestion: - No me criaron para ser ladrona y no me gusta la inferencia de que "lo" soy.

-- in·fer·ence/?inf(?)r?ns/Noun 1. A conclusion reached on the basis of evidence and reasoning. 2. The process of reaching such a conclusion: "order, health, and by inference cleanliness". More »

-- inference [??nf?r?ns] sustantivo 1. inferencia (f) deducción (f) by inference -> por deducción

-- inferencia [in-fay-ren'-the-ah] noun 1. Inference, illusion. (f)

-- que pronoun relativo 1. (sujeto) who, that (persona); that, which (cosa)

-- Should I use ser or estar? From a a textbook p.100. I think ser because not being a thief is a characteristic.

I'm not sure how to say "that I am" my guess is "que soy"

Answer 1

My suggestion: No me criaron para ser ladrona y no me gusta la inferencia de que "lo" soy.

Using the "ellos" form of the verb is also one of the ways to express the impersonal.

"Lo" is the pronoun used to replace the attribute of a copulative verb (a verb followed by adjectives or nouns that refer back to the subject, such as be, look, seem, etc.), whether that attribute is masculine or feminine, singular or plural.

¿Sabes que eres guapa? ¡Qué va, no lo soy!

¿Eran buenas? Sí, lo eran.

Much nicer answer. - 0074b507, Jul 6, 2011

This is for both of you; if I do not use the passive voice and use "No me criaron" does this change the English "I was not raised"? For the knowledge that I have it would not? - bandit51jd, Jul 6, 2011

Answer 2

a little more feedback

Passive voice is basically constructed in two different ways.

From what I gathered from a recent post by Lazarus using 1) the passive-reflexive se is the older method of doing it and 2) using Ser+past participle of the verb is a newer construction.

I do not uderstand why some articles refer to the Ser+PP+por agente as the "traditional" method then, but that's off-topic.

The Ser+PP+por [agente] is the method used more when you wish to name the agent effecting the verb's action. Passive-reflexive se is the more comonly used of the two methods.

El edificio fue construido por los romanos. The building was constructed by the Romans.

The past participle of construir must agree in gender and number with the noun edificio.

Well, heck. Here is an article on the construction.

Since you are female the adjective (past participle) had to be criada and criado was the wrong gender.

Don't let this confuse you. In the normal usage of the past participle of the verb to form compound tenses the past participle is non-finite or impersonal. It does not show concordance. This passive voice construction treats it as an adjective which always shows concordance with the noun that it modifies.

By the way...the reason that I switched for implication to insinuation is I think that with Spanish you need to use implied from (de). I wasn't sure of its use with implication, so I just used another word. I wasn't trying to say that implication was incorrect. I can never remember the differences between imply and infer so I just avoid them.

Answer 3

No fue criado ser una ladrona y no me gusta la inferencia que soy.

My guesses:

No fui criada para ser una ladrona y no me gusta la insinuación de que la soy.

You photo is a little confusing as it depicts a male. (with passive voice using Ser+PP+[por] the PP acts like an adjective and must show concordance).

Sorrq Q but you are implying guesses plural. The only guess is the que soy and I was close, very close. I will look at the rest, too. - bandit51jd, Jul 6, 2011

Sorry if the photo is confusing. As far as gender goes, most folks on the forum know I´m a female and also I put ¨una ladrona¨ as female. Again, if people don´t know this my profile is availabe for review.¨ - bandit51jd, Jul 6, 2011

I only wished to emphasize that I was guessing at the corrections. - 0074b507, Jul 6, 2011

Ah, I did misunderstand you. You want me to know you, too, are learning and others may say something else? - bandit51jd, Jul 6, 2011

Q, the last thing is your use of "No fui criada". See my comment below. - bandit51jd, Jul 6, 2011

Answer 4

"No me criaron" are you saying this as only a suggestion or as a correction in the way you've learned Spanish?

Well, I'm more familiar w/ the use of the impersonal than the use of the passive here, although I'm certain that it is also correct. Again, that is just a suggestion, not a correction.

"Para". Are you using para as a way of saying "in order to"? Something like "In order not to be a thief I was raised". In other words, both you and Q are using para, I'm asking why? Does it have something to do with "in order to" or "in order not to" in this instance?

Para is the preposition used when talking about destinations, goals, and ends. In your sentence, you're basically saying that "ser ladrona" is not what you're raised for, it is not the goal of your being raised. (Of course there is negation with the use of "no" but the rule still applies.)

Here the adjective is buenas followed by the verb eran. So the pronoun "lo" is used. Am I correct so far?

Correct.

If I am then in your sentence the adjective is la inferencia" and so the pronoun "lo" is placed before the verb?

First off, la inferencia is not an adjective but rather a noun.

Now, assuming that "la" is correct (I want to reiterate that it isn't), you would be referring not to "la inferencia" but to "ladrona". You are not being described as an inference, but rather as a thief, right?

Q pretty much explained the logic of using lo: it does mean "that thing that you said or asked previously." That is also the reason why you use lo regardless of the noun's gender or number.

I hope this all made sense.

bandit, I hope you'd understand why I couldn't answer right away. This required some thought & some fast typing. - Deanski, Jul 6, 2011

Answer 5

Hola Deanski - I have to do things in pieces so looking at your suggestion "No me criaron" are you saying this as only a suggestion or as a correction in the way you've learned Spanish?

2nd piece. "Para". Are you using para as a way of saying "in order to"? Something like "In order not to be a thief I was raised". In other words, both you and Q are using para, I'm asking why? Does it have something to do with "in order to" or "in order not to" in this instance?

3rd piece

Using the "ellos" form of the verb is also one of the ways to express the impersonal.

I'm not sure what you mean. Q's link is talking about active and passive. (I'm still reading) Is your construction just a different way of approaching the sentence?

4th piece I think I follow this example the best.

¿Eran buenas? Sí, lo eran. Were they good? Yes, they were.

Here the adjective is buenas followed by the verb eran. So the pronoun "lo" is used. Am I correct so far? If I am then in your sentence the adjective is la inferencia" and so the pronoun "lo" is placed before the verb?

I'm still struggling with how to put the pieces together, but I appreciate you guys looking and helping!

"No me criaron...." is English's impersonal "they". It is not pronominal, the "me" is a d.o.p. Spanish triies to avoid using the Ser+PP form of passive voice if possible. This is one way. - 0074b507, Jul 6, 2011

Heidita tried to explain that neuter "lo" application once before, but I had forgotten it. I don't think that I have ever seen it explained in a grammar article. The need for a pronoun, yes, but not the neuter aspect of it. - 0074b507, Jul 6, 2011

Q: I've been reading over your link. I see the part about "how to avoid the passive voice" - bandit51jd, Jul 6, 2011

So the "lo" is the nueter pronoun? Yes, I remember reading about that a little. - bandit51jd, Jul 6, 2011

neuter...no idea why it is spelled that way. Yes, Spanish has 3 genders. Nouns normally only use 2. Lo + adjective is the neuter noun gender. Spanish also has neuter pronouns like esto, eso, aquello that refer to abstract ideas or things of unknown - 0074b507, Jul 6, 2011

gender. Usually if something refers back to a specific noun the pronoun uses that gender. (él, ella, el que, la que) That is why I chose la (antecedent =ladrona), but that doesn't apply here. The neuter lo is used. - 0074b507, Jul 6, 2011

I look at it like this. ¿Eran buenas? Sí, lo eran. Were they good. Yes, they were that. The lo does not refer to the adjective good, but "that thing that you said or asked previously" - 0074b507, Jul 6, 2011

Answer 6

The biggest thing I learned is that the past participle has gender? In my case, since I'm female, I use criada?

Oh, no, I knew you weren't saying inference (implication) was incorrect. I just figured you were using a more intense verb. I see now it's more of the Spanish structure that caused you to use "insinuación de"?

I took your "de que la soy" to mean "that I am". But really the "de" is with the word "insinuación" making it ¨que la soy¨ to mean ¨that I am¨? I don't feel I expressed myself well, but did you follow want I meant? And did I follow what you meant?

Is the "la" in the "que la soy" got something to do with "soy" being used as a noun? If not, why the "la" in front of the conjugated verb?

I'll keep working on these advanced topics. Well, advanced to me. Thanks for helping me Q.

Answer 7

No fui criada. I understand fui but I'm not sure why criado is incorrect. I tried to use the participle.

criar = to raise (Full Translation)

This can be reflexive depending on the meaning.

This verb is recognized by the Real Academia Española.

Gerund: criando

Participle: criado

Can you or another give me a little more feedback on why criada? Gracias

Answer 8

(with passive voice using Ser+PP+[por] the PP acts like an adjective and must show concordance).

Q I'm not sure about what all the above is. I you think I might benefit from a little more feedback can you do it in a PM? There is so much to learn! Again, thanks so much!

Answer 9

For Q and any other member, too: insinuación

From SD dictionary: insinuación feminine noun 1. hint, insinuation

insinuaciones -> innuendo (amorosas) 

Google Dictionary Search Results

in·sin·u·a·tion

noun?/in?sinyo?o??SH?n/?
insinuations, plural
    An unpleasant hint or suggestion of something bad
        - I've done nothing to deserve all your vicious insinuations
        - a piece of filthy insinuation

Yes, I can see using insinuación. It's a little stronger than inference. And the online dictionary is clearly tougher than me.

Thanks Q!