pronominal verb trouble. Can I use it al the time?

Question

When I look up a verb in the dictionary I see the translation and then below I see a "verbo pronominal" version. This always confuses me because the english translation is the same but I don't know if the context that I can use the pronominal can be the same.

Example

to leave - salir - salirse

How do I know whether or not to say

salió del partido or se salió del partido

nos vamos a salir or vamos a salir

comer - comerse

do I say

lo comió todo or se lo comió todo

comí una bocadilla or me comí una bocadilla

What is the difference if I use a verb in a pronominal way or not?

and can you just decide to use it in a pronominal way like that?

Thanks so much Confused Dewclaw

Answer 1

Sometimes they can't explain in a sentence or two the difference between the pronominal and non-pronimal usage. Sometimes the verb meaning changes completely and sometimes there is just a small shading of difference.

Natives here have explained that se (or any other reflexive pronoun) used with comer gives it the connotation of completeness. You completely devoured or ate up the food, rather than just sampled the fare or didn't eat it all.

¿se diría "Comí un sándwich" o "me comí un sándwich"? I think it would depend on context...

As far as I know, when comer is used pronominally (as well as some other verbs like creer, beber and leer), it means more or less the same thing as its non-pronominal form, but stresses the completeness of the action (or some other unexpected quality of it).

If you're looking for a definition, you could say "comerse" is "to eat [something] up" or "to gobble [something] up".

Some other shadings between pronominal and non-pronminal usages that come to mind are using the pronominal verb to express suddeness, to shift the blame or express accidently in unforeseen circumstances and proniminal use can bleed into the uses of se wtih a verb for detransitizing verbs, expressing reciprocity, reflexitivity, forming passive voice, impersonal expressions, etc.

More often, though, when you look in the dictionary you will see definitions where the meanings change between the pronominal and non-pronominal form.

acordar=to agree, to remind acordarse=to remember

enterar=to inform enterarse=to find out

encontrar=to find encontrarse=to meet

ir=to go (to/toward) irse=to leave

salir/salirse They both can mean to leave. In that context they may be interchangeable. But in the context of to leak, to escape the dictionary uses the pronominal form and that context is not listed for the non-prononinal usage. In that context they are not interchangeable.

How do you know when to use which? That is why we use a dictionary. To provide meanings for words in different contexts.

is pronominal anything to do with reflexive? - dewclaw, Jun 23, 2011

reflexive is a subset of pronominal. Pronominal just means that the verb is used with a relexive pronoun. Reflexive uses of a verb employ a refexive pronoun. - 0074b507, Jun 23, 2011

However, some people say relexive to mean pronominal rather than the true meaning where the verb 's action reflects back on the subject. - 0074b507, Jun 23, 2011

You will also hear people say comer and comerse are differnt verb. One a reflexive verb and one not. There is only one verb comer which can be used pronominally or not. The idea of them being two different verbs come from the difference in meaning - 0074b507, Jun 23, 2011

between the pronominal and non-pronominal uses of the verb. As we have said sometimes the difference is minor, sometimes major. - 0074b507, Jun 23, 2011

Answer 2

That's a great question, and I would love to find a comprehensive treatment. In reality, I think you have to learn on a case by case basis. A really common example of verbs which have totally different meanings between pronomial and non-pronomial usage is

IR/IRSE,

where it is usual, for instance to say "Ya me voy" when, for instance, you are about to leave the house, not simply "Ya voy".

Another good one is deperdirse ( to say goodby) / despedir (to fire someone from a job).

Verbs that commonly refer to activities that one does to oneself are often pronomial:

Razurarse (I shaved myself)

Vestirse (I dressed myself)

Good luck!

Thanks :) - dewclaw, Jun 23, 2011