Errors in Story-Telling in Spanish

Question

These lines were posted before in the New Old Story series, with most of the verbs in the imperfect tense which I felt needed to be changed. I hope this isn't too terrible ...

With this excuse, the old men went to the shop of the tailor.	Con esta excusa, los hombres ancianos fueron de a la tienda de sastre.
Don Felipe waited outside while Don Felicidados entered the shop.	Mientras Don Felipe esperaba por a fuera Don Felicidados entró la tienda. [Since Don Felipe is resigned to waiting an unspecified time, I am going back to "esperaba" - which earlier was ok with Laz.]
He knocked with his cane and said, "I hear that you have a new shirt, ¡come, let me see it!"	Golpeó con su bastón y dijo, "Oigo que tienes un una camisa nueva, ven, déjame verla!"
Immediately, the tailor came to the old man and turned about so he could see the back of the shirt.	Inmediatamente Adán vino se acercó al anciano y dio la vuelta para que puede pudiera ver la espalda el revés de su camisa.
Don Felicidados was very old, but his eyesight was very good; he read the message and also saw, and counted, the stains of the dead flies.	Don Felicidados estaba muy anciano, pero su vista estaba muy bien; leió leyó el mensaje y tambien vio vió, y contó las manchas de «las» moscas muertas.

If this flies (ouch! no maté siete), I will pick up after Iñigo's friends left. Also, I changed "matasiete" to "matésiete"). Muchas gracias en adelantarse por correciones ...

This is a lot to read. It's good practice for me :) - GuitarWarrior, May 30, 2011

Thank you! Now go back and read New Old Story I, II, III, 4, 5 and ad infinitum! - Lector_Constante, May 30, 2011

Sorry to take so long editing, but this double-column table is a challenge to edit in html code! Thank you very much, especially for explanations - it doesn't help to just change the text, it does help to understand why! - Lector_Constante, May 30, 2011

Ahh, let me think some more - I keep trying to make Don F. sound authoritarian, and I have to logoff now --- lo siento! - Lector_Constante, May 30, 2011

Answer 1

Con esta excusa, los hombres ancianos fueron de a la tienda del sastre.

Don Felipe esperó afuera mientras Don Felicidados entró la tienda.

Golpeó con su bastón y dijo, "Escuché que tienes un una camisa nueva, vamos, déjame verla!" (oigo won't fit here, you could say, Se dice, dicen, or spúe/ come in this instance doesn't go either).

Immediatamente Adán se acercó al anciano y se dio la vuelta/ volteó para que pudiera ver la parte de atrás de su camisa. (you can't use volvió, as this means returned. It could be volteó, to turn).

Don Felicidados era muy anciano, pero su vista estaba muy bien; leyó el mensaje y tambien vió, y contó las manchas de las moscas muertas.

"Volver[se]" es también un verbo pronominal que significa "to turn around". - Oramasdude, May 30, 2011

"(you can't use volvió, as this means returned.)" I didn't use 'volvió' but 'se volvió'. "Vuélvete, quiero mirar tu trasero" versus "Vuelve, te extraño" - 002067fe, May 30, 2011

"...fueron a la tienda..."; "...Don Felicidados entró a la tienda." - 002067fe, May 30, 2011

Okay, mis amigos, I am going back to my original wording, if that is not totally unacceptable! ?? - Lector_Constante, May 31, 2011

Answer 2

1. Con esta excusa, los hombres ancianos fueron a la tienda de sastre.
2. Don Felipe esperó por fuera mientras Don Felicidados entró en la tienda. (as the english part is written, neither verb interrupts the other)
3. Golpeó con su bastón y dijo, "Oigo que tienes una camisa nueva, ve, permítame verla!" (ver can be used to say something like "look, just do it")
4. Inmediatamente Adán vino/ se acercó (approached) al anciano y se volviópara que pudiera ver el revés de su camisa.
5. Don Felicidados estaba muy anciano, pero su vista estaba muy bien; leyó el mensaje y tambien vió, y contó las manchas de las moscas muertas.

One way to say "let me see" is to use the imperative + the subjuncive. "permita que (yo) la vea". The other way is to use the imperative + indirect object structure."permitirle ver" means to let "someone" see. In "Permítame verla", "permitir" is in the imperative, "me" is the indirect pronoun attached, and "ver" has to be in the infinitive because the active verb is "permit" not "see". "la" is the direct object prounoun that means "the shirt". "la" should be attached to "ver". If you want to say "come let me see it", you can say "ven, déjame verla". "Dejar" is better, but "permitir" can be used too. Like most verbs, we have to follow the above rules with "dejar" as well. You can also say this :

ven, muéstramela = come, show it to me

I was having trouble with bold text. I'm using a really old browser. - GuitarWarrior, May 30, 2011

No hay problema - pero, por qué permíte instead of the imperative?? - Lector_Constante, May 30, 2011

But it really is the imperative. We look at the entire sentence. "tienes" is the "tu" form so we conjugate "permitir" in the "tu" imperative form. - GuitarWarrior, May 30, 2011

Hang on, I'll add more to my answer. - GuitarWarrior, May 30, 2011

Yes, please post instead of comment! He says: You have a new shirt. Come here. Let me see it ... ?? - Lector_Constante, May 30, 2011

"Tienes una camisa nueva. Ven, déjame verla". - GuitarWarrior, May 30, 2011

Rather better, I will use: Ven, déjame verla ! excelente! - Lector_Constante, May 30, 2011

Or: ven, muéstramela = come, show it to me. It all depends on what you want to say :-) - GuitarWarrior, May 30, 2011

Answer 3

I think "Don Felipe esperaba" sounds better.

Yeah, I did, too --- since he was going to wait for an undetermined time - Lector_Constante, May 31, 2011

Yes, and I am going to use that. Laz had no objection to this in an earlier run-by. - Lector_Constante, May 31, 2011

Answer 4

With this excuse, the old men went to the shop of the tailor. Con esta excusa, los ancianos/viejos fueron de tienda de sastre.

Don Felipe waited outside while Don Felicidados entered the shop. Don Felipe esperó afuera mientras Don Felicidados entraba a la tienda.

He knocked with his cane and said, "I hear that you have a new shirt, ¡come, let me see it!" Golpeó con su bastón y dijo, "Oigo que tienes un camisa nueva, anda, permíteme verla!"

Immediately, the tailor came to the oldman and turned about so he could see the back of the shirt. Immediatamente Adán vino hacia el anciano y se dio la vuelta para que puediera verle la parte de atrás de su camisa.

Don Felicidados was very old, but his eyesight was very good; he read the message and also saw, and counted, the stains of the dead flies. Don Felicidados estaba/era muy anciano, pero su vista estaba muy buena; leyó el mensaje y tambien vio, y contó las manchas de las moscas muertas.

"los ancianos"-I have used it a lot & wanted a change. "esperó", this passed with both verbs in the imperfect, can you explain your suggestion here? - Lector_Constante, May 30, 2011

Why "anda" instead of "ve"; "permita" - this is imperative, should it not be? "verla" - good! but why "hacia"?? help! Why imperf.subj puediera instead of pres.subj? - Lector_Constante, May 30, 2011

muchas gracias - since two suggest "pudiera" I am going with it, but do not understand it yet - will make more changes soon. - Lector_Constante, May 30, 2011

Many thanks, but I have still not gotten "estabaera" ?? thanks again! - Lector_Constante, May 30, 2011

I think that's "era" instead of "estaba". - pesta, May 30, 2011

both estaba and era can be used, but I would use era more.... - chileno, May 30, 2011

why have the changes not been made suggested here on this post? - 00494d19, May 30, 2011

Heidita, which ones exactly? The posts below conflict with some of these. Also, do I have some choice? All of the changes which I understand, on which there is no conflict, I have made. Is there a time limit on editing? - Lector_Constante, May 31, 2011

Chileno, I see, a choice between estaba/era - because there is no time boundary on his being old, I prefer estaba. Must it be "vista ... buena"; I do not mean "good" vision, only adequate ?? - Lector_Constante, May 31, 2011

Answer 5

Con esa excusa, los ancianos fueron a la tienda del sastre.

Mientras Don Felipe esperaba afuera, Don Felicidados entró a la tienda.

Golpeó con su bastón y dijo, "He escuchado que tienes una camisa nueva; vamos, déjame verla!"

De inmediato, Adán se acercó al anciano y se volvió para que este pudiera verle la parte de atrás de la camisa.

Don Felicidados estaba muy anciano, pero su vista era muy buena.; leyó el mensaje, y además vió y contó las manchas de(que) las moscas muertas. (habían dejado en la pared?)

Answer 6

I have only a few minutes to give this morning (it has finally stopped raining here - for whoever knows how long) and need to plant mi jardin (las papas, las tomates, los pimientos, etc.). I will try to work on this more this evening! Many thanks for your help!

Okay, even though the rain has stopped, there is an inch of water standing on the ground, so I still cannot work in the garden. I have gone over all your suggestions very carefully. First box: "fueron a la tienda" (of course! de would mean from...), I did not change "los hombres ancianos" as both "anciano" & "viejo" and been used a lot, and a change was called for. Second box: Per suggestion of TomBurgos (muchas gracias!), I have placed "Mientras" at the start of the sentence and am sticking with "esperaba" because Don Felipe will be waiting for an unspecified time which I believe calls for the imperfect tense. "a fuera" - very good, I really need to study up on relative indoors/outdoors wording. Third box: I am sticking with "oigo" because the old Don was not "listening", he just "heard". Thank you, GuitarWarrior, for "ven, déjame verla"; after looking at similar wordings in other Spanish works, I am truly glad of this bit of advice! Fourth box: TomBurgos & GuitarWarrior spotted the spelling error: it must be "INmediatamente" , I had not heard of "acercar" but "se acercó" seems exactly right, also "el revés", and everyone hit on "pudiera". Fifth box: (too many boxes??) Preterit tense changes, for things that happened at specific times, and "las". A couple of you suggested "vista ... bueno" but that seems to mean that he had good eyesight which was not my intention, I meant only that his eyesight was ok or fine or sufficient to the task, even if he was old. Now you may tell me that no one uses "vista ... bien" and I will fix that, too! It may be a while before the next installment, but I bet you are all glad about that!

Answer 7

Lector, please post meaningful titles, this is necessary for further searches.

Thanks, we must have like 7 threads now with the title: new old story.

saludos

Ummm, OK, each one has a unique title (this one did, too) I will try; p.s., on another site, I answered questions using Conditional & half the comments said: right, stating intentions! the other half said: wrong, use present tense 8-{ - Lector_Constante, May 31, 2011

Help, what are the criteria for "meaningful titles"? Seriously, "find errors", "amateur translation in need of correction", ??? - Lector_Constante, May 31, 2011