Encontrar y Reunir
Can someone explain why verbs like Encontrar and Reunir take "se" before them in the following sentences? How are they any different from "hablar"? Any one of the following could be replaced with "habla con" and none would have "se" before "habla".
- La mujer se encuentra con su esposo en el parque.
- El hombre se encuentra con sus amigos en la playa.
- El gerente se reúne con sus empleados en el restaurante.
- La mujer se reúne con su gerente en la oficina.
Estoy confundido otra vez.
8 Answers
The verbs in this case are reunirse con, encontrarse con.
Reunir: to gather (something)
voy a reunir unas cuantas personas para hacer un grupo.
reunirse con: to meet
Voy a reunirme con mis padres en el parque.
Encontrar: to find
he encontrado un lápiz.
Encontrase con: to meet, to stumble over...
me he encontrado con mi amigo en la playa.
this can mean, you met him or you met him by chance.
"La mujer encuentra a su esposo" = The wife finds her husband" (after being looking for him)
"La mujer se encuentra con su esposo" = The wife meets her husband"
The pronominal one is a kind of "she find herself in the presence of her husband", but it cannot be taken so literally, of course.
"La mujer reúne a sus empleados" = The wife brings together her employees [she gives the orders]
"La mujer se reúne con sus empleados" = The wife meets with her employees"
The second one is a kind of "she brings herself together with the rest of the people", but it cannot be taken so literally, of course.
Bottom line: there is no why. This is the way Spanish verbs work. In those verbs with objects (like "encontrar a" or "reunir a"), it is the subject that have a direct effect on them. With the pronominal counterparts, the subject simply does things, but rather than doing it on others, they do it in relation to others (e.g. con su esposo, con sus empleados)
Check it out:
Encontrar and reunir and aren't taking "se" at all in your example phrases:
The verbs in this case are reunirse con, encontrarse con, as Heidita said.
The verbs are NOT encontrar and reunir, they are different verbs.
Encontrar - to find, encontrarse con - to meet with. Different verbs.
Encontrar can take "se" in the way you mean: ¿Se encuentra bien? Is he OK?
Hablar can take "se" too, "se habla éspañol" passive, Spanish is spoken
Hablar can take "se" in another way: Se hablan. = They talk to each other.
But encontrar and reunir do not mean to meet, in this sense. Only encontrarse con and reunirse con do, and they are different verbs than encontrar and reunir and they aren't taking any "se" at all. Don't see every verb as reflecting back on itself as if it were reflexive just because it uses se. Se can change the meaning of the verb, that can be called pronomial.
Gracias
I'm reading what you are all telling me, but it's like it's in a different language. smirk
Yes, it is: the language is called Spanish, and you'll meet the same problem with any other of the thousands of languages still used in the world, and all of them will have the same problem in English.
"Reunir" and "encontrar" (to bring together and to find) both require either items or people as targets for the action, while "hablar" doesn't; "hablar" just requires a subject to utter words. The "se" used in the former verbs removes the 'target', and allows the subject to be just another participant. Since there is no compulsory 'target' in "hablar", the pronoun has a different effect: to remove the speaker. It is logical, but it makes sense only within the 'logical' rules of a particular language.
Why isn't it:
El gerente se habla con la empleada en la oficina. ?
Probably for the same reason why you do not do it in English! Do you "speak your employee" in English? Or you speak with your employee? Same thing in Spanish. If you find it puzzling, try to solve the puzzle in English first, hehe (the reason will take you back to Indo-European roots). Both "hablar" and "speak" are originally intransitive.
Grammar is mostly influenced by meaning, and the meaning of each verb is going to have a decisive impact on how it is used in a language. You can't just prescribe rigid rules about how to make sentences without taking into account the meaning of the words and how they are perceived by speakers. Grammar without meaning and context is impossible.
Ok... thanks for all the help.
I'm reading what you are all telling me, but it's like it's in a different language. 
This is obviously a little over my head at the time being. I'll just go with it for now.
That explains a lot, but then let me ask a stupid question...
I have seen "habla" used with "con", of course:
El gerente habla con la empleado en la oficina.
Why isn't it:
El gerente se habla con la empleado en la oficina. ?
When the verb "hablar" is used with "se" it becomes passive voice. Your example, because it has a subject and "se," is both passive and active voice together, which is impossible to be correct. It has to be one way ot the other.
And it must be el empleado.
That explains a lot, but then let me ask a stupid question...
I have seen "habla" used with "con", of course:
El gerente habla con la empleada en la oficina.
Why isn't it:
El gerente se habla con la empleada en la oficina. ?
BTW, these are taken right from the Rosetta Stone level I'm in now. And these sentences are in the same Lesson... so I think they are purposely showing these next to each other to show the difference about something.
