estaba vs estuvo

Question

For my new flashcards I would like to know whether this is correct:
Estaba enferma = She was sick

Estuvo enferma = She got sick

Thanks a lot!

Answer 1

No. The translation is the same for both:

Estaba enferma = She was sick

Estuvo enferma = She was sick

English does not have any way of differentiating between these two sentences without further context.

Enfermó = Se puso enferma = She got sick

Wow, Lazarus, you're fast as lightning! Thanks a lot! - Ingeteacher, May 19, 2011

Answer 2

so wouldn't my last example be correct then? while x was happing in the imperfect (estábamos en China), the other event occured in the preterite (ella estuve enferma). Maybe that's a bad examble because Lazurus said it didn't sound right below.

The verbs are different. "Cuando estábamos en China" does not specify start or end, but some vague time reference. Now, she can say "ella enfermó", because it is a an action that culminated at some point you were in China, a background description that still lacks time boundaries. However, "estuvo enferma" is a state, not an action, and since it is in preterite, it means that it is delimited by the total duration of the event, but at the same time, it seems to be simultaneous with an non-delimited action (estábamos en China). That's what sounds strange. Actions can happen during an imperfective period of time, but simultaneous states should also be imperfective in this case.

Now, while we were in China, she got sick...we know that her process of getting sick wasn't a process that lasted the whole trip in China (though her being sick may have). Getting sick is usually fairly quick, being sick is usually not.

Right, but more than quick, the key thing is that it reaches a endpoint... while being in China, which provides no endpoint from the imperfect perspective.

Gracias, de nuevo. Let me try again. Cuando estábamos en la playa, estaba nublado. -or- Cuando estábamos en la playa, haciá sol. -

That's right. You are not saying when the states of being on the beach or being sunny start or end, so they go perfectly together. Either of them could go along with an action that can be located at a specific moment, of course.

Also, you can describe the totality of a period of time in preterite, from beginning to end, and put on the background a boundless event or state in imperfect (e.g. Cuando estuve en China, hacía mucho calor), or bound both events in preterite (Cuando estuve in China, hizo mucho calor).

Answer 3

If you specify a point in time, which do you use?

General point in time:

El año pasado, ella estaba muy enferma.

Specific point in time:

Cuando estábamos en China, ella estuvo enferma.

Is that correct at all, or do I have it backwards?

estaba enferma would be more like "was being sick" (bad English, but maybe it'll help) - webdunce, May 19, 2011

estaba emphasizes the sickness was in process...estuvo emphasizes the fact that it's over...that's an over simplification of it, though. - webdunce, May 19, 2011

For past events, the pattern is usually while x was happening (imperfect), this other event occurred (preterite). - webdunce, May 19, 2011

So, you could say, for example, Cuando estabámos (imperfect) en China, ella enfermó (preterite). While we were in China, she got sick. - webdunce, May 19, 2011

*estábamos - webdunce, May 19, 2011

so wouldn't my last example be correct then? while x was happing in the imperfect (estábamos en China), the other event occured in the preterite (ella estuve enferma). Maybe that's a bad examble because Lazurus said it didn't sound right below. - Tosh, May 19, 2011

I think the problem there is using was both times. The first was is an ongoing was (we were being in China), the second was is this one-off, happened-now-it's-over was. - webdunce, May 19, 2011

Think about it in English...while we were in China, she was sick...this means that her sickness was an ongoing process that went on either all or most of the time we were in China...the sense is imperfect in both clauses. - webdunce, May 19, 2011

Estoy un poco confundido... pero creo que entiendo. I just need more work with the imperfect and preterite. - Tosh, May 19, 2011

Now, while we were in China, she got sick...we know that her process of getting sick wasn't a process that lasted the whole trip in China (though her being sick may have). Getting sick is usually fairly quick, being sick is usually not. - webdunce, May 19, 2011

(But that's not to say preterite only is used for quick processes)...don't worry...one develops a feel for it after a while. Sorry to write a novel in your comments here. - webdunce, May 19, 2011

Gracias, de nuevo. Let me try again. Cuando estábamos en la playa, estaba nublado. -or- Cuando estábamos en la playa, haciá sol. - Tosh, May 19, 2011

Yeah. That's it. These take the pattern of...while x was happening (imperfect), y was also going on (imperfect). - webdunce, May 19, 2011

Answer 4

This is interesting; in "black" English, one may say either, "He was sick" or "He been sick." The first would be preterit (Estuvo enfermo.) and the second would translate well in the imperfect (Estaba enfermo.). "He been sick" meaning that he was sick a lot, very often or in general.

I do not think it is a match. I don't think that "Estaba enfermo ayer" would not be "translated" as "He been sick yesterday" (if my 'Black English grammar' is not too far off), but it can definitely be translated as "He was sick yesterday". Trying to find a morphological match between a language with morphological aspect distinctions like Spanish and another one without them will not work. From all the Indo-European branches, the Germanic was probably the first one (the only one?) to lose these aspect distinctions, and they have had a lot of time to develop completely different alternatives to express complex ideas without relying on morphological verb endings. For more info on aspect (in general, including many other languages), I recommend this book:

Aspect: An Introduction to the Study of Verbal Aspect and Related Problems.

Answer 5

This is interesting; in "black" English, one may say either, "He was sick" or "He been sick." The first would be preterit (Estuvo enfermo.) and the second would translate well in the imperfect (Estaba enfermo.). "He been sick" meaning that he was sick a lot, very often or in general.

Although "He been sick" is not proper grammar whatsoever. - Tosh, May 19, 2011

In Black English, it is a correct form; the grammar of Black English is not the same as American or British English. - Lector_Constante, May 19, 2011

Answer 6

Paralee gives a pretty descent introduction to preterite vs. imperfect...it's not going to settle all doubts that one has about the difference between the two tenses...not by any means...but it's a good introduction.

In fact, despite my many comments in this thread, there are still many situations in which I'm unsure which of the two should be used.

Paralee's Video on the subject.

Thanks... I haven't made it that far yet. You'll see me mention occasionally on here that I'm using Rosetta Stone. They have just started to introduce the Imperfect and Preterite. I like this site as well... (cont) - Tosh, May 19, 2011

...because it ties up some loose ends by watching the videos and taking part in discussions like this. - Tosh, May 19, 2011

Yes, but be careful with that "All dates and times in the past are given in the imperfect", because "Esas palabras las dijo un lunes las 12:32", in preterite. - lazarus1907, May 19, 2011

OK, thanks... I think I will skip ahead and watch that video now since it's what I'm covering now in RS. - Tosh, May 19, 2011

Maybe we all can form a club and call it "Unsure which tense" or "Tense about Tense"?? - Lector_Constante, May 19, 2011

Answer 7

Tosh would be correct. Use estaba if
the occurence happened over a period of time, if it happened at one specific time then it would be estuvo.

Answer 8

I think ser and estar are the hardest to identify preterito v imperfect, I generally get it with the other verbs, but these two are definitely trickier.

For example?

Answer 9

I think ser and estar are the hardest to identify preterito v imperfect, I generally get it with the other verbs, but these two are definately trickier.

Answer 10

If you specify a point in time, which do you use?

"El año pasado" is not what I'd call 'a point in time'. A point in time, for me, is 'ayer a las 3:00'. Anyway, both are correct:

El año pasado estaba enfermo.

El año pasado estuve enfermo.

Cuando estábamos en China, ella estuvo enferma.

Those tenses don't seem to make much sense. These combinations are all possible and correct (the third one is less likely):

Cuando estábamos en China, ella estaba enferma.

Cuando estuvimos en China, ella estaba enferma.

Cuando estuvimos en China, ella estuvo enferma.

That's why I put that last year was a "general" point in time, albeit very general :). Pero, gracias por la ayuda! - Tosh, May 19, 2011

Hey, Lazarus, would you mind reviewing my comments on Tosh's post (the one to which your post here is a response) and make sure I haven't said something wrong? - webdunce, May 19, 2011