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Skip the subjunctive altogether?

Skip the subjunctive altogether?

1
vote

So I work with native speakers all day at work. My Spanish is good enough to convey 95 percent of what I want to say and understand 95 percent as well. I have never had formal training, so one of the last things that I have been trying to perfect (besides little grammatical errors which manifest themselves quite often) is the subjunctive. I frequently get it wrong when I don't want to take the time to pause and use the subjunctive, although I am understood very well from the native speakers. My question: does this happen alot to anyone else? Also, is it really annoying to natives when I decide to be lazy and skip the subjunctive?

6932 views
updated May 20, 2011
posted by Beatrice-Codder
When I'm talking it gets annoying when I have to look up rules and and then the verb in question. :) - ian-hill, May 17, 2011

20 Answers

5
votes

Right now I write this letter and I have great time, and tomorrow I go to beach with friends.

Do you understand what I wrote? I am not good at using articles or the present continuous (I am writing), so I skip them altogether. After all, I can understand natives when they use them, so why bother?

How do you intend to make negative commands without the subjunctive? In indicative?

No digas eso- Don't enter

No entras - You are not entering (it sounds almost like an invitation)

No digas esas cosas - Don't say those things

No dices esas cosas - You don't say those things

No creo que tú vienes = I don't believe that I know you are coming????

Aunque vienes... = Although (I know) you are coming...

Aunque vengas = Even if you came...

I think this answers your question.

updated May 19, 2011
edited by lazarus1907
posted by lazarus1907
:D May I come? - culé, May 18, 2011
For some reason, the aunque example together with the comment you made on chileno's post (Espero que tú tienes razón...) makes the subjunctive a little clearer in my mind. - webdunce, May 18, 2011
No digas eso -don't say that - 5point, May 18, 2011
You originally had No entres where you no have no digas eso. - webdunce, May 18, 2011
good point, the only way to make a negative command w/indicative is as a question, "¿No entras?!?" - Lector_Constante, May 18, 2011
5
votes

I think that if you don't learn the subjunctive mode they understand you fine. And if you always sound like a foreigner is fine with you then good job I say. (Joking to make a point)

But seriously, why would you want to cut corners? First of all, the subjunctive is not optional. There are very many things you can't say well at all without it.

Translate this sentence for me: I want us to arrive early.

Quiero que lleguemos temprano.

That's my version using the subjunctive. Now you try it without, using a sentence that doesn't make you sound illiterate.

And the thing is, the subjunctive isn't that difficult. It's not at all the beast everyone makes it out to be. And it's really quite fun, and helps you feel proud of your progress at learning Spanish.

By all means...learn the subjunctive!

updated May 18, 2011
edited by Goyo
posted by Goyo
In your example, it would be "que", not "qué". - Azabache, May 17, 2011
Good catch, thank you. - Goyo, May 17, 2011
And if always sounding like a foreigner... - webdunce, May 18, 2011
I was intentionally using bad grammar there, webdunce, to make a point. I didn't make the point as well as Lazarus. - Goyo, May 18, 2011
5
votes

Beatrice, I hope I am communicating with all of your personalities just to avoid having to say this numerous times.

There are many times when the use of subjunctive is determined by the speaker depending on the nuance he/she wishes to imply. There are also times when subjunctive is necessary and if forgotten, people will be forgiving. Then again there are times when subjunctive is so necessary that omitting it will sound rediculous and create much laughter on the part of your listeners.

I suggest you divide up the various levels of need of subjunctive among your various personalities and you´ll do just fine.

updated May 18, 2011
edited by 005faa61
posted by 005faa61
hehe...."Divide them up among the various personalities"—hilarious!!! - Izanoni1, May 18, 2011
Julian, typo, ridiculous. - Eddy, May 18, 2011
jejejejeje, genial, con todas tus personalidades, :::rolling on the floor::: lol - 00494d19, May 18, 2011
4
votes

Beatrice, if you don't know how to use Subjunctive, you can't say you are able to speak 95% of the Spanish language. It's impossible. But, if you say that you are that good except for the Subjunctive part, why not bother to become better and fluent with all the aspects?

updated May 18, 2011
edited by culé
posted by culé
...able to speak 95% of Spanish...except for the subjunctive part, why not bother to become better...with all aspects of the language... - webdunce, May 18, 2011
With regards to "...able to speak 95% of Spanish...", this also sounds a little bad to me (and I wrote it), but I can't think of a better alternative at the moment). - webdunce, May 18, 2011
I agree, Culé. - cogumela, May 18, 2011
Thanks webdunce.. I wasn't sure about that part either. - culé, May 18, 2011
Ah...it should be "...able to speak 95% of the Spanish language..." - webdunce, May 18, 2011
Thanks webdunce!! :) - culé, May 18, 2011
95% of what I want to say gets conveyed, not 95% of the language. I doubt many natives know 95% of the language. - Beatrice-Codder, May 18, 2011
3
votes

I frequently get it wrong when I don't want to take the time to pause and use the subjunctive, although I am understood very well from the native speakers. My question: does this happen alot to anyone else? Also, is it really annoying to I think that it would be a mistake to simply avoid the subjunctive altogether.

I would say that, yes, in most if not all cases, the subjunctive is actually necessary to properly convey the desired idea. It may seem difficult now, but the more you expose yourself to the language, the more natural it will seem to you. In any case, if you are interested, I have constructed a small paragraph in English that might approximate the effect ignoring the subjunctive has on your message:

Subjunctive:

I would like for you to consider the following sentences. I don't want you to get the wrong idea, but even though you might be understood without the subjunctive, I doubt that you are making the impression that you might like to.

Subjunctive ignored:

I would like you are considering the following sentences. I don't want you are getting the wrong idea, but even though you are understood without the subjunctive, you are making the impression you like to, I doubt.

I hope that by comparing the sentences above, it might give you some idea as to what it might sound like to a native speaker when the subjunctive is ignored. Sure, it is sometimes possible to decipher the message even when the wrong tense or mood is used, but communication is smoother for both the speaker and listener if the proper forms are used. I suppose that ultimately the choice is up to you, but before I post this, I would like to leave you with one small admonishment:

Learn the subjunctive you naughty girl!!! grrr It's not as tough as you think! (but we'll all love ya just the same whatever you decide to do) smile

There you go—a scathing, touchy-feely tongue lashing all rolled up into one neat package. tongue wink

updated May 18, 2011
edited by Izanoni1
posted by Izanoni1
Hmmm, not using the subjunctive makes it sound like machine translation - Lector_Constante, May 18, 2011
2
votes

I completely agree with Culé and Heidi. I think you think that you understand the 95 per cent. If you are unable to use subjunctive, you're probably missing much more than you think. It's one thing to know the meaning of the words, and it's a very different thing to understand the feeling of what someone is saying.

In Spanish subjunctive is used all the time, for you really to be able to convey 95 percent of what you want to say without using it at all seems improbable to me. I suppose the learning of the language should happen altogether, in a balanced way, otherwise it will sound really strange.

Edited: Thanks, Webdunce!!

updated May 20, 2011
edited by cogumela
posted by cogumela
¿Sabes qué? Escribir correcciones en el área de comentarios es una lata. Pues, en lugar de eso, he enviado un mensaje privado. - webdunce, May 19, 2011
Siempre veo que necesito cambiar esto o eso, pero entonce es necesario que borre lo entero, y si añado lo correctado, estará en un orden mal. - webdunce, May 19, 2011
:) I know what you are speaking about. Thanks a million, web!! :) - cogumela, May 20, 2011
2
votes

Ha! Welcome to the club! I have one hurdle left to jump in Spanish (aside from learning more idiomatic expressions and vocabulary) and that's the subjunctive! It doesn't seem to pose any communications problems - it just sounds a bit off to a native speaker.

But you're not alone. The subjunctive seems to be the toughest thing to grasp in Spanish for me.

updated May 17, 2011
posted by la-araña-discoteca
1
vote

Beatrice:

You don;t really have to "study' the subjunctive.

Transcribe your favorite novel (you already read it) from Spanish to English, looking up for words you don;t understand, and you'll get the gist of it without even knowing you are using the subjunctive. You will just do it, because "it makes sense" to use it.

read my blog please:

Chileno's Learning Spanish and English blog.

updated May 18, 2011
posted by chileno
Espero que tú "tienes" razón, pero no "dices" esas cosas a los que están aprendiendo español. - lazarus1907, May 18, 2011
Yo "tener" razón, y si "decir" esas cosas a los "no ser" nativos españoles.?! :) - chileno, May 18, 2011
1
vote

Also, is it really annoying to natives when I decide to be lazy and skip the subjunctive?

I am laughing my head off at Julian's comment, amor mio, eres el mejor LOL

And I am stunned that you should say, hey, my Spanish is so good that I can understand and use 95% of the language. big surprise

there is no way at all that you can do that, this is like not using prepositions correctly in your language, great stuff, very funny thread Beatrice, you have made my dayLOL

updated May 18, 2011
posted by 00494d19
1
vote

Beatrice, not everyone has time to answer your question, but I would say keep on truckin and make your subjunctive the best mood ever.

updated May 18, 2011
posted by Beatrice-Codder
wow, answering yourself, which of the personalities julian referred to is this one? lol - 00494d19, May 18, 2011
1
vote

I will watch this question so I can learn what a Subjunctive even is. surprised

updated May 17, 2011
posted by Tosh
It is much easier in English - mainly cos we have "Modals" - ian-hill, May 17, 2011
Look at a verb chart. (See conjugation in the "More" menu) There are several tenses of subjunctive verbs) - Goyo, May 17, 2011
1
vote

When I'm talking it gets annoying when I have to look up rules and and then the verb in question.

grin

updated May 17, 2011
posted by ian-hill
0
votes

no estás sola

updated May 19, 2011
posted by dewclaw
0
votes

It isn't necessary to understand the subjunctive to order a beer or ask where the bathroom is, although you often run into the imperative even in these simple circumstances and may even encounter the subjunctive if hings aren't going smoothly. The rest of Spanish is optional.

updated May 18, 2011
posted by lorenzo9
0
votes

For me "O Sea" means "that is"

Mis compañeros, o sea, Juan y Pedro - My colleagues, that is, John and Peter.

updated May 18, 2011
posted by Eddy