Subjunctive question: back to the basics

Question

hallar que, averiguar que, vislumbrar que, darse cuenta de que, saber* que. These can all mean "to find out that". "to find out" means that the following is real, so the indicative can be used right? From another point of view, you are trying to convey that you discovered something.Whether or not it is real is less important, and that calls for the subjunctive.

I know the subjunctive can be used, but I can't explain why the indicative is wrong so I'm starting to question myself and consider that the indicative can be right too.

Here's an example: Estaba vagando cegado por la oscuridad de mi tristeza cuando vislumbré que estuvieras/estabas conmigo.

I was wandering, blinded by the darkness of my sadness when I realized that you were by my side.

What should I use? Indicative? Subjunctive? Both are correct?

Indicative wins 5 to zip. And now I can't even imagine how the subjunctive can be right in this case. - GuitarWarrior, May 9, 2011

Answer 1

I would use the indicative, because it's something you know happened in the past.

I can't think of how the subjunctive fits in with finding something out, to be honest.

Thanks, that's what I was thinking. The subjunctive is vexing me... even now! - GuitarWarrior, May 9, 2011

Answer 2

Now I'm confused

vislumbrar

Those definitions don't sound like realize to me, at least the way I use it in English.

Definitions, definitions... This verb can be used in several ways, one of them with the sense of to realise:

Si te quedas fijamente mirando al cielo, verás cuántas estrellas hay. Cuanto más miras, más vislumbras.

Le di mil vueltas al problema hasta que por fin vislumbré la solución.

Desde lo alto de la montaña si el cielo está despejado se vislumbra el horizonte.

Me hice osada navegante de los mares de Internet y vislumbré que se abría una nueva era para toda la humanidad.

Thanks for the clarification cogumela, and thank you Lorenzo for helping me out so much :) - GuitarWarrior, May 9, 2011

Answer 3

Now I'm confused

vislumbrar

Those definitions don't sound like realize to me, at least the way I use it in English.

But think about it... you say "oh I see" all the time. Do you say "I realize" or "I am currently aware of the fact?" - GuitarWarrior, May 9, 2011

Actually, Lorenzo, the 2nd definition you gave me is dangerously close to "realize". - GuitarWarrior, May 9, 2011

For me, working on a math problem, theres a big difference between thinking this might be an approach and realizing that it will work. To me, vislumbrar is like the first and realize is like the second. - lorenzo9, May 9, 2011

There are unsolved problems that people have pursued vigorously for decades under the impetus of vislumbrar, and I'm one of them. - lorenzo9, May 9, 2011

Unfortunately, the realization is always the negative. - lorenzo9, May 9, 2011

Answer 4

So what if I said "I did not realize you were with me" would "realize" be considered like "believe" or "think", leaving the verb after "que" in the subjunctive? Or since it IN FACT REALLY DID HAPPEN, but you did not notice it, should it be in the indicative?

I think that you could use either one in that case, since it is the past. From the time point of the past, it is subjunctive; but from the time point of the present it is indicative. - lorenzo9, May 9, 2011

Answer 5

Guitar Warrior I would use the indicative here As soon as I read the sentence I thought indicative

Your sentence ''I was wandering, blinded by the darkness of my sadness when I realized that you were by my side''

After further consideration I concluded that there is no need to use the subjunctive here as this is simply a statement of fact and there is no doubt, uncertainty or hypothetical situation involved or even an anticipated event

I hope that helps

No reason to use the subjunctive... So all this time I was trying to put the subjunctive where it did not belong :-) - GuitarWarrior, May 9, 2011

Answer 6

Hey everyone. Here are the english and spanish translations.

Estaba vagando cegado por la oscuridad de mi tristeza cuando vislumbré que "estar" conmigo.

I was wandering, blinded by the darkness of my sadness when I realized that you were by my side.

Scoreboard: Indicative "estabas" 3, Subjunctive "estuvieras" 0

Reason: "realize/ find out" expresses opinion. When I look at it that way, "realize" can be used like "creer que" and "saber que", and I already know how to use those. The indicative is use when positive, and the subjunctive when negative. CRITICAL, if it does not express opinion, then "realize" would be followed by the indicative whether or not it is negative. Can someone give me a few more examples, because this is not as "basic" as I once thought it was...

It takes the indicative, like " de repente caí en la cuenta de que estabas a mi lado" - cogumela, May 9, 2011

Yes, "darse cuenta de que" takes the indicative, so if I have a synonym, the indicative would follow that as well. - GuitarWarrior, May 9, 2011

Answer 7

Estaba vagando cegado por la oscuridad de mi tristeza cuando vislumbré que estuvieras/estabas conmigo. What should I use? Indicative? Subjunctive? Both are correct?

"Vislumbrar" is, to my knowledge, a very literary verb that I have never heard in spoken Spanish. What exactly do you mean by "I glimpsed that you were with me"? I would say you have to use indicative, if you think you glimpsed something.

You guessed it! I'm reading spanish literature :) "vislumbrar" can mean to "glimpse" to or "see the light" as in "realize" - GuitarWarrior, May 9, 2011

I don't think it really means realize. - lorenzo9, May 9, 2011

I does, Lorenzo. @ Lazarus: I agree, I don't use it every day, but from there to say that you never heard it spoken Spanish... :) it seems to me difficult to believe. - cogumela, May 9, 2011

It's not an essencial verb, but it's relatively common. And in my opinion, it's well used in the sentence. - cogumela, May 9, 2011

Thanks Lorenzo and Lazarus, I'm definitely trying to say "find out". If vislumbrar only means to "see", then it is definitely in the indicative. - GuitarWarrior, May 9, 2011

Thanks cogumela. I'm definitely rephrasing this if I have to write a paper about what I read. - GuitarWarrior, May 9, 2011

Answer 8

"to find out" means that the following is real, so the indicative can be used right? From another point of view, you are trying to convey that you discovered something.Whether or not it is real is less important, and that calls for the subjunctive.

To find something out means to believe it is true, at least at that moment. To then immediately use the subjunctive would be saying that you didn't believe it, which makes no sense. I don't think you can use the subjunctive here, since you are actually declaring that you believe(d) something.

That makes sense to me :) - GuitarWarrior, May 9, 2011

Answer 9

Yes always a tricky one and I would definitely wait for a native on this one but I would say that you use the indicative to say something like:

I was wandering blindly about .....when I realized that you were with me.

but the subjunctive if you wanted to say something like:

I was wandering blindly about .... when I realized that you might be with me.

or if you were taking about a future situation or a would/if situation

I was wandering about .... but would have felt better if I found that you were with me.

You can also use the future indicative tense to express probability. I'm probably making things much harder than they have to be, but I'm leaving no rock unturned. - GuitarWarrior, May 9, 2011

btw thanks kiwi girl - GuitarWarrior, May 9, 2011

And in this case, I think the future tense would be the correct way to say "might", but then there is the question is whether you might have seen something or did see something that might have been me. - lorenzo9, May 9, 2011

But neither one seems subjunctive to me. - lorenzo9, May 9, 2011

Actually, since this happened in the past, you would use the conditional tense to express probability. But either way you slice it, it's not subjunctive. I think I get it! - GuitarWarrior, May 9, 2011