A Cartoon for Today: "Elegido del Dios"
I thought it would be fun to discuss this cartoon in English or Spanish (no moderator present). Share what you think the point of this cartoon could be, as well as if you agree or not with the message. I think this is a subject that affects all of us, wherever we may live, no matter what the language.
Pienso que sería divertido (o chido para los Mexicanos) discutir ésta viñeta en inglés o español (sin moderador presente). Comparte lo que piensas que podría serel punto de la viñeta, así como si estas de acuerdo o no con el mensaje. Pienso que el tema nos afecta a todos (nosotros), dondequiera que vivamos, sea la lengua que sea.
Today I chose a deeply controversial cartoon in Spanish. This cartoon is from the respected Spanish daily El Pais.
11 Answers
Ten cuidado! ¡Es una tema muy explosiva!
I don't know if I agree entirely with this statement. Too often there is an element of fear attached to the statement of "Be Careful!". As long as we are not degrading another human being, as long as we respect them as another being as equal and as loved as we are, there is nothing wrong with discussing controversial topics. All too often just because someone's opinion is in the minority and not commonly accepted, they are considered hateful and cultist. If history is considered, you will soon find that whether a person in history was considered a witch or a worshiped advocate of freedom simply depended on the time in which they lived. The moment we are afraid to discuss relavant issues of the day, whether politically correct or no, is the moment that we lose personal freedoms and dignity as a human being. Never feel demoralized or afraid because of criticism. Consider it a good sign that you have not become an automaton.
So, yes please be careful not to spout hate. On the other hand, please be at liberty to speak your mind. Become more informed by considering other points of view discussed by other members here, today.
ref to Rabbit's recent post:
I am sorry to say that it will never happen - the Berlin wall separated an existing nation that had a language and a culture in common. It was political in nature and not relgious. But mix the 2 and add in a few thousand years of so-called history you have an almost unsolvable problem - made worse because people will not / cannot communicate because of religious and political bigotry and intolerance.
See here how few posts there have been because of ..................... ? You tell me.
Lo cierto es que, rena, en España ni a los judios ni a los musulmanes, no se les toca ni con pinzas, es demasiado peligroso
Somos el pueblo elegido del dios que nos inventamos.
The idea that God would have a "chosen" people is ludicrous. (If there is a God)
That man invented God is not such a ludicrous idea to contemplate.
Am I being "politically" and / or religiously incorrect?
Wow! I had no idea that Spanishdictians would be so fearful of discussing such a relative and pivotal topic! My other threads titled "A Cartoon for Today" have garnered a lot more response. I guess the idea of possibly appearing "politically incorrect" is too daunting for most! This topic desperatly needs addressing as it is becoming a debate across the world as evidenced by its appearance in the newspaper.
I think that this discussion has the risk of being politically incorrect.
My thinking is that if everyone involved really followed the highest spiritual guidance of their religions (for example if they followed the ten commandments), there would be a lot less to fight about.
Gosh, this is such a long story with so much blame to go around, it's difficult to even pick a position. Everyone in the world needs a safe place to call home. Lobbing rockets at your neighbors or sending suicide bombers to blow them up is never, ever going to make your home safer. the only answer I can imagine involves forgiveness and letting go of the past. Both in sadly short supply.
I believe that religious tolerance and the adherence to spiritual principles is the answer to this problem.
The U.S., and my home state of Pennsylvania is the birthplace of many different religions. Some U.S.-born religions (Christian Science, Mormonism) sprang out of the culture of religious freedom and while other religions came to the U.S. at its beginnings from Europe. People came to practice religions they were being persecuted from practicing at home. Some of the religions in the U.S. seem really strange to people who are not of that faith, but we live near and are friends with people who subscribe to these faiths, necessitating the active practice of religious tolerance.
The Jewish people say that they need a safe place to call home, but there are many, many of the world's religions that do not have a specific country where that religion is the state religion and where their country is defended by an army. This situation creates an uncomfortable mixture of church and state where any political action could be said to be justified by God.
The U.S. has been a haven to many of the world's religiously persecuted people, including Jews, for over 200 years. To me, it seems that this premise of their needing their own country, which the Jewish people feel justified to have because of the Holocaust, is one of the key problems.
People on the other side sometimes say, "If Jews want their own land somewhere and the people of the U.S. support a free Israeli state, let the Americans give the Jewish people Arizona." Of course, no one on earth wants to give up their own property rights to someone else, Palestinians or Arizonians.
With some embarrassing lapses in recent years, the U.S. has historically been a place where people of any faith can live and practice any religion. And, we have been a safe haven for people practicing many, many religions.
I lived in a Moravian town in Pennsylvania for many years. The Moravians came from Bavaria, a region of Germany, over 250 years ago to Pennsylvania to practice their spiritual version of Christianity. They were being persecuted in Germany for their beliefs. At the same time, there were Quakers coming to Philadelphia and many other sects you may never have heard of. Many continue to this day.
When they arrived, the Moravians formed a "closed community" for the first 100 years -- if you weren't of their religion, you couldn't live in that town. However, it wasn't a separate country and they did not defend it with violence. In historic form, the white man did trick the Native Americans living in that part of Pennsylvania in a land deal known as "The Walking Purchase" -- and violent Indian attacks with the slaughter of every inhabitant did happen in other Moravian communities in the area as a result. However, the Moravian's reading of the Bible made them peace-loving people and more likely to get together in the church and sing hymns when there were rumored Indian attacks, a method that worked successfully at least once.
Interestingly, after 100 years, the Moravians of my town didn't have enough young people who wanted to follow their strict rules to survive, so they opened the community up to "outsiders" and for the next 150 years it became a regular municipality where anyone could live. (But they will call you an "outsider" if you live there but were not born there.)
What is my conclusion? If you have a religion, whatever it is, follow its spiritual instruction. Fighting to the death for a piece of land that God told you you should occupy is a argument that is impossible to defend with spiritual principles, whomever you are, whatever your religion and wherever the land is located -- and it is a recipe for heartache and disaster.
And, believe it or not, I have a friend who is a Rabbi, talamudic scholar, teacher and guru of a sort who teaches that there is no spiritual justification of this fighting over land to his students who are studying the Torah. In my opinion, this is a man of great spiritual courage.
That said, people known for actively practicing religious tolerance are better able to make these points than people who are known for the violently removing people of other religions from their land.
No lo he pillado, o sea, pillé las palabras pero el significado, no.
Solo voy a decir que espero que en la futura escribiremos en la pared entre Israel y Palistina como escribimos en la muro de Berlin ahora.
All I'm going to say is that I hope in the futre that we will write on the wall between Israel and Palistine like we write on the Berlin wall now.
¡Ten cuidado! ¡Es una tema muy explosiva!
Pienso que hay bastante culpa para ambos lados en este caso. Los Palestinos perdió su tierra por fuerza hace más de sesenta años. Pero había usado mucha violencia en la lucha para retener su país. Los Isaraelies tenían cosas horribles durante la reina de Hitler, y necesitaron un país para sus mismos. Pero han hecho mucho a los Palestinos a tomar sus derechos y dignitad.
Tienen que crear una solución que incluir un país que los Palestinos pueden llamar su mismo.
I believe there is enough blame for both sides in this case. The Palestinians lost their land by force more than sixty years ago. But they have used much violence in the fight to regain their country. The Israelis had horrible things done to them during Hitler's reign, and they needed a country of their own. But they have done much to the Palestinians to take their rights and dignity.
They have to created a solution that includes a country that the Palestinians can call their own.
