Gypsies Gitanos
It is estimated that there are 500,000 gypsies in Spain. Records suggest that they started to populate Zaragoza in 1425 with the majority entering Barcelona in 1447.
In 1492 the gypsies were included in the cleansing of non Christian groups. During the next 300 years they were subjected to laws and prejudices to drive them out of Spain, example, in 1560 they were prohibited from travelling in groups of more than two.
I have two questions
1) Nowadays do gypsies have the same rights as the majority of the population. To be left in peace, residential sites, school access for their children, etc, etc.
2) Should these rights be withheld due to their way of life for being outside the system. Generally avoiding the payment of tax, creating a nuisance etc, etc.
Se estima que hay 500.000 gitanos en España. Los registros indican que comenzaron a poblar Zaragoza en 1425 y luego muchos más en Barcelona en 1447.
En aquel entonces en 1492 durante la expulsión de no cristianos que incluyeron a los gitanos, estaban prohibido de viajar en conjuntos más de dos personas. Durante los próximos 300 años existieron las leyes y los prejuicios para expulsarlos de España.
Tengo dos preguntas
1) ¿En la actualidad no tienen a los gitanos los mismos derechos que la mayoría de la población recibe? Que se dejen en paz, lugares de residencia, la educación de sus niños, etc, etc.
2) Debido a su forma de vida, ¿merecen estos derechos? Por ejemplo evitando impuetos, la creación de molestias, etc, etc.
6 Answers
I believe that if we want to gain the benefits that society offers to the whole ,
then we must be willing to pay the price that society expects and needs in
order to keep the system functioning in an efficient manner.
Creo que si queremos obtener los beneficios que la sociedad ofrece a la totalidad,
entonces debemos estar dispuestos a pagar el precio que la sociedad espera y
necesita en para mantener el sistema funcionando en forma eficiente
rabbitwho said
Anyway what do you mean by "Creating a nuisance?"
We have an incident in the county where I live where gypsies have purchased green belt land and built illegal houses on this land. They have continually refused to demolish them by using their "ethnic stature" and also using the "human rights" laws we have in Europe. The local council have been trying for about ten years now to get them to obey the law that all citizens here have to live by but to no avail. Also local residents are continually harrassed to such an extent that many, particularly the elderly, are afraid to leave their homes at night.
Don't forget the Nazis killed approximately 1 million gypsies. (As well as approx. 4 million homosexuals, mentally handicapped people, any ethnicity, religion or political view they didn't like etc. and approx. 6 million Jews)
And to this day they don't get treated fairly, for example Amnesty International had a petition going recently in the Czech Republic because Roma children were being segregated and sent to schools supposedly for mentally handicapped children. (Amnesty's intervention worked and they seem to have changed the legislation)
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/feature-stories/europes-roma-community-still-facing-massive-discrimination-20090408
Anyway what do you mean by "Creating a nuisance?"
I believe that we should follow societies values and laws up to a point and within reason but let us never forget what happened to many Gypsies in the holocaust they were treated shamefully like the Jews and homosexuals (gays) in a similiar kind of ethnic cleansing but on a greater scale and in a more horendous fashion.
Certainly we should obey the good laws of the land but we should question some of the insane legislation that comes out of Brussels in the name of law-making and even from our own government.on occasions. We need quality legislation that will improve the lives of citizens in any country not burden us with more laws to remember and follow. In essence we should use discernment. One of my heros was a German Pastor called Dietrich Bonhoffer who was one of the few people who had the guts (ie: courage) to stand up to the nazis and say to them You are wrong!!! He paid for it with his life!
I ask this question though why should we, and who even has the right to, persecute people whose lifestyle is different from our own? I am not talking about defending the indefensible like child-abuse, rape, murder, terrorism or honour killings carried out by some people but simply living a travelling lifsetyle and opting out of the ratrace.
As far as benefits are concerned I agree with Ray if we want the benefits society offers then we must put in the hard work and follow the decent/good laws of the land.The gypsies cannot take the benefits and give nothing back ..they have to act fair too! Additionally they have to understand that if they act in an illegal or socially irreponsible manner there will be consequences: either fines or possible imprisonment or social dispproval, exclusion, or in the worst case scenario actual persecution. Let me finish on this point; Not all gypsies are bad. A minority of Gypsies get a bad reputation for all the others through leaving rubbish on common land, stealing or causing trouble the rest don''t deserve to be treated shamefully on account of it.
My simple comment is that Gypsies are not the only group of people in a society that demand the same rights as others in that society without wanting to respect the norms of that society.
Many non-gypsies in any given society also also want the rights without the obligations.
I have encountered "gypsies' in several countries in the years I worked in Europe. A few I encountered were fully assimilated and part of their adopted country. Others were "malechores" and I can not think of a more appropriate word for them. I f (you) chose to not contribute to the society in which you live, how do (you) expect the benefits.Punto!
